C.J. Ichiban

I really don't think a GT3 is in the cards for you- I got one because I really don't like convertibles, and track once a week or more on average.


before buying another car, just give "track tires" and some seats/harnesses a shot. if you enjoy the extra grip, etc. then maybe you should go ahead and get a "track car" to supplant your 987S instead of the GT3 as a compromise car. it's probably cheaper to go this route as well.

if you're into open air- there's really no substitute for open top motoring, and like other people said- you're gonna have to be at "going to jail" speeds in the GT3 to get the same enjoyment on the roads.

even though i have a great "compromise car" in the RS, I went and bought a cheaper track only car so I can kick it around and drive 10/10ths with no remorse ($$$) or fear (full cage with fire system, etc). In my MX-5 I'm faster around the track than most of the 996/997gt3/tt crowd on our local course- mostly because they're pussyfooting/ don't want to damage their 400-550hp car and I'm full out ricky bobby style with 200hp. It's a lot of fun, everything is cheaper (4 slick tires: 880 bucks) and the car is fairly disposable.

you learn a lot more at 10/10ths...and when I get back into my GT3 I'm always faster with the knowledge and confidence I gain in the MX5.

plus bonus of that is you can tell people you "own a race car" which is a nice ice breaker at cocktail parties.

chrisc

I came back to the sport after the kids finished college. Bought the bride and me a '06 Boxster S as a weekend car. Took it to two DE's and the opportunity to buy a old friends 924 S came along. The 924 is now my track rat. This past weekend was signed up to instruct at the RA Peachstate DE, had last minute mechanical with the 924. Rather than cancel on Friday, took the Boxster, only ran two sessions w/ the Box. Compared to the 924 the thing is a Buick, sure it's faster on the straights but other than that it's a nice cruise car in it's stock form. If I could convince the wife to let me buy a GT-3 it would be in the garage already.

z12358

Thank you very much for all the responses. Really appreciated and helpful to hear people talking from experience. I'd like to address the points in aggregate.

First, a tow-truck + trailer is simply not an option for me right now. Without going into details, it's not an issue of $ but more one of space and maintenance. The "boss" drew a line there, and one has to be selective in picking their battles ;^). A dedicated track car (with no trailer) may be an option but I'd have no space in my garage for it (and a separate weekend car), as well. And what's the point in even considering it if a trailer is not an option? It still would have to be streetable enough to at least get me to the track, and there we go compromising again.

I agree that I am probably not reaching the car's limits with only 15 track days under my belt. Perhaps I didn't express myself well enough initially but that doesn't really matter all that much for this discussion. The move to a GT3 would be mostly because it would be safer (proper top, cage, instead of a soft top and roll bars) and not because it's more car than the Box. The fact that it can be increasingly set-up to adjust to one's improved track driving would only come as a bonus later. And there are still testimonies out there that gloat about how nice GT3 also is for country roads driving. (For the ones that asked, and as a point of reference, I started with 1:11 at Limerock on my first track day, and now consistently pull 1:04, on the pre-repaved track. On my second day at NJMP Lightning - 1:21. Didn't have anyone to time me at Watkins.)

After reading all the responses it seems to me that the best way to proceed is option #1 -- to get race seats + harnesses + HANS for my Box and just use it as it is. The 987 hoops are plenty high (much higher than 986) so they don't really need the BK extensions. They're 2+" higher than the top of my helmet, and that's with a stock seat. A race seat would place me at least an inch (if not 2) lower than that. Shall/must I also add a hard-top?

In terms of $ -- even though that's not the primary concern -- the option #1 is also better in terms of damage/cost exposure. My Box is now probably worth around mid to low $40k's. A year from now, high $30k's, and probably mid $30k's two years from now. They say, "Don't take a car to the track if you're not prepared to write it all off today". I think I can write off amounts like that, and can afford to practically self-insure myself. A GT3 would expose me more to a $70k+ total loss, and partial loss (parts) is probably more expensive for it, as well. Add to that costlier expendibles and maintenance, and the Box looks like a much more economical choice, while at the same time still offering more passive safety (mid-engine, traction control) at the track and more fun on the twisties (mid-engine, top-down) than the GT3.

Joe asked if I'm not having fun in the Box any more. Not even close. Yes, I do have tons of fun both on the track and on the roads. I just love that car. I'll just stop wasting any more of everyone's time as I think I have my answer. I can probably never accept letting my Box go.

fjpdds

I hear you on the tow vehicle and trailer. Sounds like you have a wise plan. Best of luck!

blake

I chose to rent a garage at the track. My wife calls it my "bachelor apartment" b/c it has all of my needs (TV, Playstation, Chairs, Refridgerator, Scissor Lift, Porsche Wall Art, etc.)

I spent most of my free time there just tinkering with my cars and hanging out with other garage tenants. Good livin' in my book.

No trailer yet - but hope to get one in future years to drive on other tracks as my skills improve...

-Blake

z12358

Final question:
How safe would I be (in relative terms, of course) with seats + harness + HANS but no hard top and/or cage over my head? If anyone has any statistics, experiences, or opinions that would help me quantify the increased risk of NOT having a proper roof and cage, I would really appreciate it.

I would think that the roll bars + the (windshield) A frame would offer plenty structural protection in a roll over accident, except in a situation when the roll hoops would potentially "dip" into soft ground or sand and allow for the head to hit the ground as well. After all, Porsche must have designed and placed the hoops for a reason, right? Are there race seats that are tall enough to cover the top of my helmet thus offering extra rigidity and protection in such a scenario?

By far, the most typical track accidents I've seen and heard of so far have been hitting a wall, or a barrier which would make the soft top a non-issue. Or am I mistaken? Eric mentioned 5 track deaths over 4 years in Norther CA. Any more data as to what exactly happened in each of those instances?

As always, many thanks in advance for everyone's responses.

Z.

Ray S

Obviously a full cage race car with race seat, harness, hans, etc is the absolute safest bet (for the track). However, the full cage can present safety problems for street dirving.

For a dual purpose street/DE car, a Boxster with a race seat and harness is a good compromise IMHO.

Here's mine;

VERBOTN

Ray nice set up this is a version with a cage. FG top and doors taken off to make access easier when wrenching

dmoffitt

I don't think you're out-driving the car, I think you are reaching the limits of what could be considered safe though...

you answered your own question. Seats, maybe roll-bar extensions, that stuff won't affect it for the 3/4 of your "fun time" days and the HANS and track wheels don't even come into play until you ARE at the track.

smlporsche

Good choice keeping the Boxster S.
I have one and would not trade it for anything for driving on the back roads.

As far as a hardtop goes I would not bother as it really does not add any structural rigidity. You may find out as your speed (and skills) increase that the top will flap a little but its no big deal.

I seriously doubt that more than a handfull of people on this board have the ability to fully drive their car to its max. I know I don't and I'm an instructor....go figure
At some point you may want to get some R comps and track pads and then you'll have a whole new car to learn

z12358

That's exactly what I was trying to say but was having trouble expressing.

Just ordered GT3 seats + 6pt Schroth belts + am looking at HANS devices at the store tonight. And, most importantly, I've stopped looking at GT3's.

Z.

chrisc

Sorry, beg to differ. My stock '06 Boxster S is a marshmellow on the track. Great for Sunday brunch rides but not a track performer. My 924 S street legal track car is a far better track car imho, although not as fast on the straights. (also PCA National DE Instructor)

dwe8922

Open top cars without any rollover protection scare me on the track. I raced karts, and never felt comfortable being exposed. I also got a lot of track time in my friends 360 spider, and I never felt comfortable in it either. My vote would be for the gt3. Reason being, they've already got everything set up for the track right out of the box (sure many people mod them, but they are very very good stock). My 993 started pretty much stock, but the suspension was way too soft, and I was always wishing for bigger brakes, etc, etc. I spent a lot of money getting it to where it's really good on track, where a gt3 already has all that stuff, and all the safety stuff is plentiful, and easy to add. As you get more serious w/ your boxster, you'll be very surprised how money spent on improving it for the track sneaks up on you!

I built my 993 up, but it took a lot of time and money. My 360 is fun on the track, but even it needs a lot of time and money to be good on track. Point is, w/ a gt3, you can skip a whole lot of tinkering (time and money), and have something that's great right out of the box, has a lot of room to grow into, and is pretty easy to resell, even if you've tracked it.

Try the boxster for a while w/ the safety stuff you're buying, and see how you like DE's. If you feel like it's for you, and you want to do more, then I'd really think about something like a gt3. You'd have a hard top, good track suspension, great brakes, beefier engine/trans, all in a package you can drive back and forth to the track. You could even get one of those wheel trailers to drive to the track with so you could take track tires, a jack, and race brake pads.

M758

An open topped boxster is not an ideal track car, but consider it is a 75% back road fun car with an open top being a big point for the owner. That said occasion use on the track is perfectly fine even with the open top. It is near impossible to have one car do everything well. As such compromises must be made.

z12358

David, apart from the scary feeling you have about open top cars, is there any data/evidence/statistics/logic (anything objective) that would point to increased risk of not having a hard roof at the track? And I thought the Boxster DOES have rollover protection -- those hoops that jutt straight from the frame and right behind the driver. Would Porsche put them there just for show, and would it get TUV (German DOT, I believe) approval if they offered sub-par rollover protection? I can see how many scenarios could develop in wheel-to-wheel racing (crashes, pile-ups, cars/parts flying into the cabin from above), but how often do these really happen at DEs? Just my thoughts.

Ultimately, as you said, I may end up getting a GT3 in the future. In a couple of years, my Boxster will be out of warranty, I'd have put 20 more track days in White under my seat, the new 2010 GT3s with DFI will be well out, the 07-08 997 GT3s will be safely around $90k (perhaps mid $80k's), and 996 GT3s will be in the low $60k's - high $50k's. Then, depending on how hooked I become to the mid-engine (ahem, proper race car layout ) I could either decide to make my (then $30k Boxster) into a dedicated track car (with a 3.8 S engine drop ), or go with a GT3. By then, I may even find the space (and approval) for TWO Porsches in the garage.

Z.