Veloce Raptor

EXACTLY.

Brendan, all I can say is....didn't you learn your lesson when you had your hat handed to you on the topic of corn ethanol as a crappy fuel in another thread?

DarkSideDE

Thanks for the correction - okay - so it condenses which we won't enjoy...

Lower mpg - definitely - I couldn't believe what was happening...

Meanwhile - have you heard that China is now suing the USA - seems we have some contracts that we are suppose to be fulfilling (sending them corn) and we aren't because of Ethanol.... or so they say on the internet.

I look forward to the continuation of this thread and BrendanC's comeback.... let's hear it!

BC

....Ethanol is a great fuel. I don't care how it gets to the pumps, and I don't care what starving people in some 3rd world country where the warlords get the grain and then sell it for bigger guns need the corn we are supposed to be sending. Corn is not the only option to make the fuel - biomass in general works, we just have to make it work on a large scale.

Its race gas at half the cost or less, and its perfect for running high boost, high hp engine under heavy load because of its characteristics.

What hat? The seaworld hat I just paid 16 bucks for on Sunday? No Hat Here was Handed to me. You stated you didn't like the way it was made, and that it can't currently be transported in the normal pipelines. Thats a fine argument - but it makes no difference on how great it is once you have it in your car in a proper tank running through non-rubber or ss lines. Nearly no detonation. Rich mixtures gain more torque. Very forgiving on tune. A cooler running engine.

Again - do you worry about the huge ships that carry the oil? Do you worry about how much energy it takes to get a gallon of regular gas into your tank all the way from its oil state in the ground somewhere in the arab desert? Not many seem to - but ethanol gets all this hyped up scrutiny. Corn is not the best bet for long term increasing use. But for right now I'm fine with it while we work out other ways.


Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but I will not be getting vitriolic. China is suing us? Can we sue them for being a communist state that dumps crappy lead-laced products on the world market? Why don't they grow their own corn? As I mentioned - I could care a ****'s less about all these whiners in the 3rd world that aren't able to create their own stable society and need the corn we grow.

Ah - China - but do they need our corn because thier own contains lead?
http://www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR7689.html

Why would anyone in their right minds be concerned over what these communist goons want or need?
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-15152

If we have some high bread and milk prices for a while (by the way - much of the increase is from fuel prices - you know, oil) and finally find a way to use all of our space biomass and make it into ethanol so we can get off this arab oil kick we are on, then so be it - let the rest of the world be strangled by these psychopathic idiots. 100 years ago these arab sheiks were in tents herding camel and sheep. I want them back that way in another 50.

BC

I heard an idiot on NPR the other day (the algae guy) say that ethanol was corrosive. Its not corrosive! That was an outright lie.

It conducts electricity, so you have to watch for galvanic action. It soaks into certain natural rubbers, but its fine with viton, teflon, Cross linked polyethylene, and several other widely used rubber replacements.

Matt Romanowski

914's don't have coated gas tanks. That is enought reason to hate ethanol.

Also, ethanol doesn't detonate as easy, but you need twice as much to make the same power.

analogmike

it may not be corrosive ITSELF but having it in my gas along with it's buddy h2o will rot out my expensive finicky MFI and my fuelsafe fuel cell. So I don't want it, and I really hate it because of the US politics, so I will pay gladly pay double for NO ETHANOL gas, thank you.

Veloce Raptor

BINGO

Veloce Raptor

....

BC

I just don't get why individuals can't separate the politics from the fuel. Its just ludicrous. You don't think that normal gas has water in it?

I am not suggesting everyone run out and buy E85. The car must be designed for it.

There is a fuel lubricity modifier that you can put in your tank when you must run the (commonly) mandated 10% ethanol fuel. It helps with the MFI's issues with low-lubricity fuel issues.

There, problem solved.

BC

I have stated my personal intent on its usage.

But how is my intent any more bias than the obvious political sandbagging that is being utilized on other side of this debate? Its a great Fuel, and will be even better when not tied to food production, so people will have less to complain about.

Many tuners use water injection as a way to defeat detonation. So there may be some water in the ethanol filled tank. So? As I mentioned, run some fuel lubricant:

http://jdmultimate.com/Store/Product...Make=UNIVERSAL



And be happy for the near total removal of the possibility of detonation way into stratospheric boost numbers. Basically, it makes the physical strength of the block and head assembly itself the power limiting factor - because at 7:1 AFR with Ethanol, you won't have any hint of detonation at even pretty wild timing and boost parameters.

BC

If I use the real amount that works, which is more like 7:1 AFR, its not the "Same power" because you must change the engine parameters to take ADVANTAGE of the fuel. I can make three times as much power with twice as much fuel.

Everyone is confusing work with efficiency.

Matt Romanowski

Cool, so your paying to rebuild my motors to benefit from this efficiency?

BC

The change in parameters required to take advantage of the fuel are:

Increased compression and/or high boost (10:1 PLUS enough air to make 20psi through normally robust engines is fine)
slightly increased or just NOT retarded timing
Larger injectors - you need more because this is an oxygenated fuel.
Totally different tune.

Otherwise, no physical changes to the engine required.

Bull

No Matt, he won't help you with that. BrendanC is deeply into a project to create and distribute the perfect ethanol burning vehicle. He will then gladly sell one of them to you when the politically motivated hacks force us to use the stuff because we wouldn't use it in a free and open market. If ethanol dies, BrendanC crawls back into his tent.......but he "hates the politics..."!

Veloce Raptor

followed by

make me at the sheer irony......

Brendan, do you actually read what you type before posting it?

No physical changes other than increased compression ratio, increased timing, larger injectors, and a completely different tune? That's all?

BWHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!