Corner Balancing question...
#31
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There's nothing to complain about there either, assuming it was done
with you in the car, and the sway bars detached, and then they re-attached
them and made sure there was no tension in the mounts before you got out,
and this was with your tires at the full hot running pressure you want etc.
I'm waiting for someone to post a problematic setup, with a non-symmetrical
car. In those cases, you can/have to make interesting choices. For instance,
if you want to maximize cornering stability and performance (as opposed
to maximizing braking or accelerating), what you really want is:
LF/LR = RF/RR
You want the ratio of weight on the outside of the car to be the same
in left and right hand corners. Everything you do to tune cornering
is symmetrical. Sway bars put the same load left and right. You always
buy identical springs left and right, identical shocks and settings, tire
sizes etc. So, if you want to tune more/less oversteer (for instance),
you will perhaps add more front bar. But you don't want a car that's
45/55 on the left and 40/60 on the right, else you'll only be able to tune
for neutrality one way, and be off in some direction on the other.
The typical basic corner-balance seeks LF+RR = RF+LR, and that's
as good as you're going to get for an all-around setup, but there is
room for optimization if you want cornering over braking, or the reverse
etc. For my slightly imbalanced car and for the autocrossing I do, I
optimized for cornering symmetry (LF/LR = RF/RR). This was about
10 lbs or so away from the basic, and what this did was to give me
*better* braking because my front corner weights became more
equal than they would be with an all-round balance. What I lost is
that the rears became those 10 or so lbs farther away from equal
than they would have been so acceleration from the rear would be
more limited by the light wheel's load. In my case, with an AWD
car, it was something I am willing to accept.
Joe Weinstein.
with you in the car, and the sway bars detached, and then they re-attached
them and made sure there was no tension in the mounts before you got out,
and this was with your tires at the full hot running pressure you want etc.
I'm waiting for someone to post a problematic setup, with a non-symmetrical
car. In those cases, you can/have to make interesting choices. For instance,
if you want to maximize cornering stability and performance (as opposed
to maximizing braking or accelerating), what you really want is:
LF/LR = RF/RR
You want the ratio of weight on the outside of the car to be the same
in left and right hand corners. Everything you do to tune cornering
is symmetrical. Sway bars put the same load left and right. You always
buy identical springs left and right, identical shocks and settings, tire
sizes etc. So, if you want to tune more/less oversteer (for instance),
you will perhaps add more front bar. But you don't want a car that's
45/55 on the left and 40/60 on the right, else you'll only be able to tune
for neutrality one way, and be off in some direction on the other.
The typical basic corner-balance seeks LF+RR = RF+LR, and that's
as good as you're going to get for an all-around setup, but there is
room for optimization if you want cornering over braking, or the reverse
etc. For my slightly imbalanced car and for the autocrossing I do, I
optimized for cornering symmetry (LF/LR = RF/RR). This was about
10 lbs or so away from the basic, and what this did was to give me
*better* braking because my front corner weights became more
equal than they would be with an all-round balance. What I lost is
that the rears became those 10 or so lbs farther away from equal
than they would have been so acceleration from the rear would be
more limited by the light wheel's load. In my case, with an AWD
car, it was something I am willing to accept.
Joe Weinstein.
#32
Rennlist Member
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I'm waiting for someone to post a problematic setup, with a non-symmetrical
car. In those cases, you can/have to make interesting choices. For instance,
if you want to maximize cornering stability and performance (as opposed
to maximizing braking or accelerating), what you really want is:
LF/LR = RF/RR
You want the ratio of weight on the outside of the car to be the same
in left and right hand corners.
car. In those cases, you can/have to make interesting choices. For instance,
if you want to maximize cornering stability and performance (as opposed
to maximizing braking or accelerating), what you really want is:
LF/LR = RF/RR
You want the ratio of weight on the outside of the car to be the same
in left and right hand corners.
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#33
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This tidbit of information is the way I describe the reason for cornerbalancing to a newbie. It helps people understand what is going on. Ever try to eat at a coffee shop with a wad of napkins shoved under one leg of a wobbly table. This how to corner balance a table. When you corner in a car and the weight shifts to the outside tires then the car will wobble on the tires that are doing most of the work. The springs hide this from you but you feel this wobble as unstableness at turn in and when the turn is completed. And when accelerating or decelerating during a corner.
#34
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A bit curious here.
How does the majority tracks you run at look like:
Counter clockwise or clockwise?
Any specific turn type that is more common, like long, high-G, hairpins?
Are they rights or lefts?
How does the tyre temp (cord) look after a stint?
Any uneven temp spread between left and right side?
How does the majority tracks you run at look like:
Counter clockwise or clockwise?
Any specific turn type that is more common, like long, high-G, hairpins?
Are they rights or lefts?
How does the tyre temp (cord) look after a stint?
Any uneven temp spread between left and right side?
#35
Rennlist Member
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In the USA we have mostly right hand turns on road courses. So the USA cars with driver on the left are not the best setup... some people in SCCA have raced the UK versions of Lotus, MGs, etc, with the driver on the right for better balance on our predominantly clockwise tracks.
Not too easy to find a RHD Porsche, I hear they are more valuable in the UK.
Not too easy to find a RHD Porsche, I hear they are more valuable in the UK.
#36
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In the USA we have mostly right hand turns on road courses. So the USA cars with driver on the left are not the best setup... some people in SCCA have raced the UK versions of Lotus, MGs, etc, with the driver on the right for better balance on our predominantly clockwise tracks.
Not too easy to find a RHD Porsche, I hear they are more valuable in the UK.
Not too easy to find a RHD Porsche, I hear they are more valuable in the UK.
Regarding the track setup. Have you done CW in mind of the turns and your driver characteristics? Or have you go for the "give-me-no-headache"-setup?
I'm asking since most people, if that are not in a big series don't. (And hardly feels the difference). But most people don't drive Cups either. Hence the question.
Would be interesting to go through a Motec and see what comes out
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#37
Rennlist Member
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Not sure exactly what you are asking but yes, I have at times tried to set my car up specifically for Lime Rock which has only one left hand turn which can be considered a throwaway turn. You can set your car up for a clockwise oval and it will work well at Lime Rock.
I have set my RF camber to nearly stock settings and that helps in braking and turning right. I have also set my left side ride height a bit higher to keep the car more flat in the right hand turns. But I have not tried a staggered corner balance like the NASCAR guys do.
I have set my RF camber to nearly stock settings and that helps in braking and turning right. I have also set my left side ride height a bit higher to keep the car more flat in the right hand turns. But I have not tried a staggered corner balance like the NASCAR guys do.
#38
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Mostly interested to hear about how ppl on other side of the pond are doing ![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Did you have the same CW then?!
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I have set my RF camber to nearly stock settings and that helps in braking and turning right. I have also set my left side ride height a bit higher to keep the car more flat in the right hand turns. But I have not tried a staggered corner balance like the NASCAR guys do.
#39
Pro
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I've search and searched but can not find this info. Please help if you can...
Using the center of FENDER as the ride height measuring points, what is generally considered the optimum 996 track ride height... especially front to rear? (rake) I saw the Porsche Motorsport data posted elsewhere but that was data taken from suspension pickup points. My shop floor is far from level and I like to take measurements on my leveled setup platen instead... So fender to contact patch surface works for me.
Thanks in advance...
Using the center of FENDER as the ride height measuring points, what is generally considered the optimum 996 track ride height... especially front to rear? (rake) I saw the Porsche Motorsport data posted elsewhere but that was data taken from suspension pickup points. My shop floor is far from level and I like to take measurements on my leveled setup platen instead... So fender to contact patch surface works for me.
Thanks in advance...
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