kurt M

Oh I really need to stay away from this thread. It has become a mess. A funny one but a mess none the less.

But your "flat out" is fast

Me too! Was it something I didn't say?

Oh $hi! Thats my problem. I tend to make little tweaks allmost the way around most corners. Not to the gas pedal, that sucker is planted and crampin' up my foot but I do add in or remove steering input.

Bull

Ahhhh yeah, that's it....set it and forget it.

ZAPmobile

Dell,

Just when you think you are out, THEY pull you back in.

TD in DC

All of this reminds me of a similar theory I wish I had learned before all the kids came along:

If you release on time, or too early, on a late withrawal it is more dangerous IMO. A normal or late release is a late withdrawal. And if you release too late on an early withdrawal in most cases, there is time enough to scrub away the evidence.

OK, I am just joking around.

Out of all seriousness, wanna, I think I understand what you are trying to say.

I disagree, and I also wonder whether you may be saying "apex" sometimes when you really mean "turn-in points." Could that be possible? I am guilty of that myself sometimes.

If I understand you correctly, your idea is directly linked to your belief that you should "set and forget" (i.e., it is dangerous to make corrections to steering after you have turned in).

Although that is certainly the goal, one of the most important differences between novice drivers and great drivers is that great drivers notice their errors early and correct them as soon as possible.

So you definitely do NOT want to set and forget. It is fine and desireable to correct a mistake ASAP, although, as I think you correctly are suggesting, you may not always be able to get down to an apex with a big mistake because you may not be able to pinch the wheel that much.

So, if you are at a new track on heat worn tires, a late apex is safer. With a high hp car like yours, a slightly late turn in is even safer in combination with the late apex. Why? Because that will give you the most margin of error, even at Southbend, at track out. It is definitely slower under most circumstances. However, if you make an error, you are likely to have a problem early in the turn,which will give you more time to fix it. By contrast, if you intentionally use early apexes, or worse yet, early apexes with early turn-ins, you may not realize that you have no room at track out until it is too late to do anything about it but run right off the track.

Now, if you know you have a serious problem and there is no way you will make a turn, you are 100% correct that a valid corrective theory is to turn in way early and try to create as long of a straight braking zone through the turn as possible. This can be used if you come in way too hot and just know that you cannot make the turn in any event. Maybe this is what you were saying? Even so, that is no reason for intentionally trying to use early apexes when you have no reason to believe you will not make the corner.

You may also be trying to say that it is safer to open a wheel in a turn than pinch it, so that if you aim in tighter you have a safety margin to reach the apex by opening the wheel. This is true enough, but why base your turn-in point on the assumption that you WILL make an error. In reality, doing this will ensure that you make an error at every corner. But is that what you mean? Are you trying to say that, due to lack of confidence, you wanted to make that error so you could open the wheel because you were afraid of making the other error and having to pinch the wheel? I could understand that reasoning, but I think it could lead to other problems, and it would be better just to try to hit your turn-in points and apexes properly (e.g., if it is a new track or worn tires, later turn-ins with later apexes).

Have confidence that you will hit the apex. If you are a little off course, try to fix it as soon as you realize the error.

forklift

Most of my corrections are prior to or at the apex. I try to dial out exit oversteer w/ my shocks (rebound), but even w/ a neutral or understeering car you will get some entry oversteer w/ trailbraking....sometimes too much. YMMV.

Mikelly

While you're at it, can you guys rost thi, I mean critique this video of me??? I'm the car in the view finder for two laps or so...

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/2253177/7099793

Mike

TD in DC

I'm done critiquing videos. I just thought I would follow through on wanna's since I started it. Should be obvious by now that I am trying to be helpful.

Edit: Actually, the driver in this video doesn't look like he is doing a bad job at all to me, but it is a little hard to hear and see again. The three things that seem the most obvious to me about the driver of the car in this video is that he might be able to (1) straighten out the braking zone at the end of the back straight (e.g., brake some to remove speed, turn in to create a braking straight that runs diagonally from the right of the track to the left of the track at the top of the hill, (2) trailbrake to get better rotation on the car at oaktree (e.g., rotate the car early so he can get back on the gas early), and (3) clean up the esses a little (e.g., make it straighter through the middle part, but the second time through wasn't bad). Overall I would say pretty good job but it is nearly impossible to judge accurately from videos. But I am really done trying to help. You can't tell whether people really want help or whether they just want praise.

Mikelly

That was me, and I have zero excuses... It was wet and I was Skeered!!!



Sunday morning, session 1 White runn group...\

I suck!
Mike

Mikelly

That was me, and I have zero excuses... It was wet and I was Skeered!!!



Sunday morning, session 1 White run group...\

I suck!
Mike

SundayDriver

Can I be an A-Hole too?

This thread is just too funny. I have not seen this much real world, good solid advice completely ignored since we lost GR and CC. But what do I know, I never could master G-Sum and GR told me I am slow (and old).

38D

It basically looks like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPJtK-DxnV4




Btw, who wants to start a pool that the phrase "can I drove you car" will be in wanna's next post...

Mikelly

Screw it, I'm in line in front of him now... Can I???
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Please???

Mike

Bull

You can, and you are. I say that as an expert at all three conditions.

Bull

I'm so proud of his accomplishments, and the way he has continued to apply everything I taught him about that swing!

SundayDriver

Thank you sir, may I have another?