RedlineMan

Please;

None of this is directed at you personally. I am simply using these statements to make finer points and offer what I feel are wider, more fully developed perspectives. This stuff gets pretty murky. About as clear as how to drive the best lap.

Are the driver's preferences based on statistical data, or simply their personal preferences? Frankly, I'd be a quite surprised if it was based on the former because I would be equally surprised if many drivers really knew that much about how safety systems work. If they took all statistical parameters and dynamic realities into account, the HANS may indeed not be the one they would choose today. IF the HANS stays under the belts, it performs very well, but the unfortunate reality is that this has the potential to be a big IF.

If people want the best performing device that offers the least encumbrence to use, the Isaac wins hands down. Unfortunately, it has been legislated out for racing by all sanctioning bodies using the SFI standard. That's another argument.

The real question is are you prepared to accept the fact that the HANS can be severely limited in some respects? You will recall that NASCAR used to mandate the use of the Hutchens Device before they landed on the HANS bandwagon. The original Hutchens is one of the "lower performing" systems out there, but ironically it blows the HANS away in one respect; it is not going to come out from under the belts.

Is the HANS better or worse? Unfortunately the answer is YES. People need this kind of information to make truly informed decisions. I don't feel that taking this or that guys advice is an informed decision unless he himself is truly informed. Further, a source may indeed be highly informed, but if he attempts tell you in one sentence that this or that device is the only thing to use, he is doing you a disservice, at best. It is far too complicated to fit into one sound bite.

ZAPmobile

John,

The fellow I talked to, as I said is in charge of saftey for GM racing world wide. After Dale E. was killed he was the one from GM plus all the other major car companies of the world in racing who did the research into saftey SYSTEMS in race cars, the head and neck system being part of that, if anyone has all the data it was him. As I said based on what he had to say I'll use the Hans.

RedlineMan

And...

That is a decision you have made for yourself, based on his knowledge. Saying that a decision is based on the available data is a lot different than saying "that is the only one the drivers will wear", which is likely more of a personal preference. People are prone to favoritism based on sometimes rather arbitrary preference, after all. "I'm a Ford man. Best vehicles on the road." Why? "Well, my family has always driven Fords."

My point was to keep folks from making "bandwagon" decisions. Those are generally not informed decisions in my estimation.

Now, whether or not the HANS is the best performing device or not is another argument altogether. If you can make the HANS work in your environment and you are comfortable with its performance stats, then by all means. However, if for whatever reason it presents too many compromises, another device may indeed work better for you. Again, I'm all about informed decisions because they tend to produce the best results.

gbaker

That was Tom Gideon, and based on the information available to him at the time he was giving you the straight scoop. However, you're talking a looooong time ago in terms of safety research. Since then Gideon was the lead author (the other authors were Melvin and Begeman) of a paper (SAE #2004-01-3513) which was not so complimentary of the subject product.

Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC

ltc

Can we talk about oil viscosity instead?

RedlineMan

Well...

Lew hinted at this. I was not going to go there. Now it's out, so... As Lew aluded to and I mentioned more directly, you can't beat reality. The HANS performs exceptionally well if it stays under the belts. When it does stay put, there is only one device that outperforms it (by a bit), and that happens to be the Isaac. However, as Lew said, you can't overcome physical properties or occurences. Numerical and physical data do not lie. They can be misinterpreted or misunderstood, but the truth always lies within them.

The only flaw of the HANS in terms of dynamic performace is that it relies on a non-stable, variable entity to keep it in place; the belts. In a straight on single impact hit, the HANS is highly reliable and effective. If you have an offset hit, or more than one impact, it is highly suspect. You just can't get around that.

For the record, I use a HANS. I also have a substantial custom fabricated full containment seat and Schroth Hybrid belts. I am fairly comfortable with the level of dynamic performance the HANS offers in this environment.

Now... if I could just egress the car with it on!

ZAPmobile

Yes, I use 150-200 weight virgin Zebra oil.

gbaker

Viscosity is good. I love viscosity, and I only use SFI certified viscosity

kurt M

Where do you get virgin Zebras? I have been using baby oil but it takes a lot of them do an oil change.

ZAPmobile

You have no idea how hard it is to find a virgin Zebra in Hillsborough , NC. All the running around trying to catch them, the personal testing one has to do. It really is quite wearing. And, when you do find one it's the wrong weight.