$17K 964 or $27K 996. Extra $10K worth it?
#92
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How quickly we forget the constantly overheating, head stud pulling, chain tensioner failing 2.7s
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
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Interesting that the engine blowing up, either on the 964 with the top end re-build, or the 996 and this oiling problem, always seems to come up. The most I ever spent on the 3.2 was a $4K valve adjustment (I think) and that was in the middle of putting on about 30K track/driving back and forth miles. Trying to keep engine costs at a minimum is why I want to keep it stock. Is this a 50/50 prop or have I got better odds do you think? I've always heard that the SC's 3.0 and the Carrera's 3.2 motors were damn near bullet proof. I guess I've been spoiled!
My point was that you were going to spend money doing repairs either way you go. 3.2 included as these are now 20+ year old cars. Entry costs + ease of "shade tree mechanic" repairs are what really separates your options.
Performance clearly does, otherwise they would all be in the same PCA class.
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Bottom line: You are buying a Porsche and they simple are not cheap. Truth be told you will have 40K in any 911 you put on the track. This is a fact. I have run the #s up and down. $40k for a decently prepped 964 and older, probably a little more for an early 996. A well sorted and nicely done Carrera or SC will be the same, $40k. Maybe not originaly cost but......it adds up very fast.
Myth: 996 is bad on the track. Bull****! A year or so ago I might have agreed with the notion that you must have a drysump motor for hard track use. Not after having owned a Boxster. Not a 911 but similar build style. Car was very smooth and no oil issues. The oil fix is around $600.00 for a 996. Baffle in the pan and something with the valve covers.
$15k-ish will put you into a pretty nice 944, except Petrol's.
Myth: 996 is bad on the track. Bull****! A year or so ago I might have agreed with the notion that you must have a drysump motor for hard track use. Not after having owned a Boxster. Not a 911 but similar build style. Car was very smooth and no oil issues. The oil fix is around $600.00 for a 996. Baffle in the pan and something with the valve covers.
$15k-ish will put you into a pretty nice 944, except Petrol's.
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Bottom line: You are buying a Porsche and they simple are not cheap. Truth be told you will have 40K in any 911 you put on the track. This is a fact. I have run the #s up and down. $40k for a decently prepped 964 and older, probably a little more for an early 996. A well sorted and nicely done Carrera or SC will be the same, $40k. Maybe not originaly cost but......it adds up very fast.
Myth: 996 is bad on the track. Bull****! A year or so ago I might have agreed with the notion that you must have a drysump motor for hard track use. Not after having owned a Boxster. Not a 911 but similar build style. Car was very smooth and no oil issues. The oil fix is around $600.00 for a 996. Baffle in the pan and something with the valve covers.
$15k-ish will put you into a pretty nice 944, except Petrol's.
Myth: 996 is bad on the track. Bull****! A year or so ago I might have agreed with the notion that you must have a drysump motor for hard track use. Not after having owned a Boxster. Not a 911 but similar build style. Car was very smooth and no oil issues. The oil fix is around $600.00 for a 996. Baffle in the pan and something with the valve covers.
$15k-ish will put you into a pretty nice 944, except Petrol's.
+1. Now where the hell are you finding the oiling upgrade? Doesn't seem like Porsche does it anymore.
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I saw it somewhere, was simply a baffled sump, maybe a little deeper than stock also. My 997S was a wet (oh sorry, "integrated dry") sump also, I was told to be sure to run it about 1/2 Qt over full at the track.. not sure that has any effect or not.
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It's more than that. It's called the X51 kit. It includes a new oil pan, oil suction pump, oil suction pipe, modified valve cover with a machined boss for the suction pipe. The problem is trying to find anyone to machine the valve cover. PMNA used to do the upgrade, but the word is that they are not doing it anymore.
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Jim
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I could use some opinions here. The idea is “biggest bang for the buck.” The car would be used for DEs, Time Trials and MAYBE for a race or two. The trick is, I still need to drive it back and forth to the events, so no full on track cars. With both, I’d upgrade the suspension and try to lighten up the car a little bit by removing some stuff. Of course, I’d add safety equipment on both, plus new seats, sticky tires, etc. I guess the real key here is, should I roll the dice on a stock, 100K + mile 964 or is the reliability, fun and competitiveness worth the $10K bump for the (’99 – ’01) 996? BTW, I have 8 years of DE in a wonderful 87 3.2 911 with suspension upgrades, but am tired of getting run over in the straights. I have instructed in both 964s and 996s but never pushed them so I don’t have a reference there. I’ve been out of the game for two years so this is a bit like starting over for me. Thanks for your advice.
I was at your same juncture 2 years ago. I ended up choosing the 'best' car I could afford at the time. This limited me to SC, Carrera, and 964 cars. I ended up buying a 964 C4. Hardly considered the 'track weapon' by most. However, I enjoy the heck out of it, and so far it's been reliable. Lots of these guys are hard-core racers, and well, I am not. So I was compelled to respond with a lowly DE-TT guy type response.
My advice is to not only consider the initial outlay, but also the costs to run a car. Since I have not owned a 996 I can't comment, but my car requires quite a bit of work to be done by myself to keep it in good DE/TT condition ($22k car, $22k mods, $ maint). It's also heavy so I rip stuff out to try to con myself into thinking I can be competitive. Perhaps one of the 996 guys can comment on the running costs of a 996 vs 964 to help you in this regard. The 964 is not exactly cheap when it comes to maintenance, but seems pretty bullet proof.
In terms of speed, at my level, and I don't know yours really, 3.4 996's, 964's, Cayman, and 993's all run pretty close. The 996 3.6l's are faster for sure at my level (but they are $$ than 964s, etc). Since I just do DE/TT I am sure the gap is less when people start prep-ing to the 9th level in race trim. Also at my level driver skill matters more than 200lbs of weight, etc. So thats a big factor to consider. I don't know where you live, but I am in PCA region #7, and the TT classification is a total joke. But in my class (TT6) we have a mix of cars from 914's to GT3's. Of course I can't even come close to matching a stock GT3 no matter what I do unless the driver is drunk. So you might want to just glance at your regions results and see base points/prep levels to get a gauge on what is competitive w/ what mods.
For me, the air cooled car was what I wanted, so I went with that.
Hope I am helping... good thread!