FredC

Yep, go check the lap times of the orange enduro group qualifying or race at the road america club race that took place on labor day (pca.org/clubrace). This will give you a decent indication of speed and car potential.

JimB

Yep, looks like Hupfer in his "very special" SC was only 6 seconds slower than my 996 time from last year. The next SC is 10 seconds slower.

Obviously SCs are very fast and very fun 911s and I have to admit that Hupfer passed me in the rain at Mid-Ohio last year. Still, given equal cars with equal drivers you really can't compare them to a 996.

dave morris

I agree.

FredC

He was only 4 seconds faster than the next SC. 6 seconds on 2:35 ain't that bad. How much did your 2:30 (did you dip below 2:30 with a non GT3 996?) 996 cost you already?

JimB

I meant 10 second off of my time. That's just not what I typed.

Yes it was a non-GT3 996 and yes is fairly developed ($$) but let's not pretend those SCs haven't had some work done to them over the years. And Mark is not your average driver.

Now, put a nice stock SC against a nice stock 99 3.4L 996 at RA with the same driver and I'll bet the difference is more like 10-15 seconds. Nothing against the SC. It's one of the best 911s ever but you really can't compare it to the new cars.

eclou

OK foreign has a 20k miles 996 coupe 6spd with front fender damage for $19k. Could be a great starting point for a very strong car

FredC

Stock for stock with the same driver, you are probably right with the 10secs. But well developed for well developed, the time gap narrows while the $ gap increases. In the end I kind of love all of them to be honest. They all have something special.

Gary R.

That car has some serious damage... it's a great parts car

flatsics

Hupfers best 3 laps Road America 2007
Euro SC F class
F 2:35.986 Mark Hupfer S 79 911 SC Qualifying 9/2/2007
F 2:36.817 Mark Hupfer S 79 911 SC Race 9/2/2007
F 2:36.872 Mark Hupfer S 79 911 SC Practice/Warmup 9/1/2007

My best 4 laps in the sprint RA 2007
79 911SC Prep. F class
4 2:39.051
5 2:39.532
6 2:39.579
7 2:39.940

So really the difference in race conditions from me to Hupfer was just over 2 seconds. Fred C ran a mid 2:39 in Mike I's old car.
I get tired of all the comments about Hupfer "special SC". Bottom line is the guy can flat out drive. His set-up is spot-on. His car is fast because it should be. A Euro SC is a bad-*** little car. The 9.5:1 Euro 3.0l makes real good horespower.In the past couple of seasons when I have been behind him on a long straight, I have never thought that he pulled me more than he should have--I can't say that about all G/F cars. His car should have about 20 more horse than mine. Hupfer runs 225's front and rear on 15 inch wheels--that gives him lower effective gearing and more forward thrust off the corners. I run 17" wheels 245/40/17 on the rear. I have 993 TT front brakes and C2 turbo/930 rear rotors. So i have slightly taller wheel/tire combo and bigger rotors/"flywheels" to accelerate off the corner. I like the unsprung weight/big brakes trade-off.
I wish we could have dyno pulls in PCA. It would help with stuff like this.
Guys like Hupfer/Poeltl force me to be a better driver/improve my car.
I was behind Poeltl during qualifing- he was hitting the curbs so hard he was on two wheels through most corners. I thought if he can do that --I need to drive harder. I then turned my first 2:39 after that, during qualifying.

Larry Herman

The problem is that most here are comparing apples to oranges. A great driver like Hupfer in a great car like a Euro SC is going to be quicker than a lot of average drivers in faster cars. Put a very good driver like Jim Breakey in a very fast car like his old 996, and there is no way that Mark can run with him; as it should be.

To boil it down, an SC will be slower than a comparable Carrera, which will be slower than a 964 which will be slower than a 993, which will be slower than a 996. As fast as my RSA is, it is because the prepared rules allow me to make more mods than the stock 996s that I race against. If I were to mod a 996 to the extent that my car is, it would be faster, hands down.

JimB

Geez, what's that all about. I was complementing his car not calling it a cheater. How would I know and why would I care. I don't race with you guys. How about this. SCs are great cars. SC drivers are great racers. Happy?

RS 197

Let me ask this questions. How many 996 cars are on the race track VS. 964 cars??? From DE to club racing?

The 996 Engine has more in comon with a Subaru motor than your 996 Cup motor...If you think they are such capable track weapons why are you selling.?Why do you own a cup car? It is a proven fact that the 996 will not hold up to track abuse like the GT3 air cooled motors, gear boxes...

I don't think anyone was comparing speed. Speed is not always the objective. Obviosly the 996 in capable hands is going to be faster. It has more H.P. That has nothing to do with drivability or the durability of the power plant. If the cars are so capable why does the cup car have a totaly different drive train?

Out west I don't even know a single guy that races a non Cup/GT3 996. I see very few at the D.E. events.... Way more 964,993,GT3 cars.

Good for you sticking up for the 996, one of few the track junkies....next you will tell us that it is the best lookng Porsche every made??? In the old day's Porsche would have to change very little to race there productions cars. Since the 996 came along..... They had to creat an entirely new model line to keep racing.... 996 is not a real Porsche in my book.

trackjunky

JimB

Well, I checked the Sebring club race and there were 9 996s. I only counted a couple of regular 964s. There could have been more. At Road Atlanta there were 6 996s club racing. 7 996s racing at Watkins Glen. There are plenty of 964 cups and RSAs but not many regular 964s. I didn't look at any other races but I suspect the numbers will be similar.

Ever heard of Grand Am Cup? Obviously they've progressed to 997s but they raced 996s for years.

Your second question is why did I move up to a cup car. I wanted to test myself against the best drivers racing in closely matched cars. In GTC3 the big races have 30 to 40 nearly equal cars. Why wouldn't I move up. It's a blast.

Look, I'd rather the 996 had a dry sump but it doesn't and it doesn't seem to make much difference. I never had any engine problems and everything else about the car makes a great race car.

BTW, I don't think my 996 is all that ugly. I know it's not slow.

Ray S

This statement pretty much sums up your entire post. You should have put it first so I could have avoided the rest of your drivel.

Is the GT3 motor better? Sure it is, but this has nothing to do with the OP's question. You gripe about the motor quite a bit but clearly there are a lot of people who DE and Club Race 996's with very few problems. Furthermore they must not broadcast Grand Am Cup races out west. Guess what Porsche they drive???

I guess (based on your post) that the 996 chassis is no improvement, lighter weight is no improvement, brakes no improvement, suspension no improvement?

Did you even bother to read the original post? What a joke....