VP Fuels - Be sure what you are buying!
08-17-2007, 09:01 PM
#17
Lifetime Rennlist Member
A couple of observations, as I have done fuel research professionally in a past life.
Bad fuel can certainly cause what is described. However, fuel is not going to change much over time. It is going to lose the light ends and may not start easily or run well, but I do not think this is a result of old fuel. Rather, I think the fuel drums did not contain what was expected. Perhaps it was a batch lacking detergents, or some other component had been blended. I just don't think you need to worry about fuel being 'fresh'. The biggest problem with old fuel is that if it is not sealed, it will breath over time and take on quite a bit of water. That is not going to damage an engine, but it will make it run like crap.
I think if you have any case, it is based on the drums not containing what you purchased. There are some simple dielectric and reagent tests used in racing that could prove the fuel is wrong and could be the basis of an action.
Bad fuel can certainly cause what is described. However, fuel is not going to change much over time. It is going to lose the light ends and may not start easily or run well, but I do not think this is a result of old fuel. Rather, I think the fuel drums did not contain what was expected. Perhaps it was a batch lacking detergents, or some other component had been blended. I just don't think you need to worry about fuel being 'fresh'. The biggest problem with old fuel is that if it is not sealed, it will breath over time and take on quite a bit of water. That is not going to damage an engine, but it will make it run like crap.
I think if you have any case, it is based on the drums not containing what you purchased. There are some simple dielectric and reagent tests used in racing that could prove the fuel is wrong and could be the basis of an action.
08-17-2007, 10:31 PM
#18
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chester County, PA
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Mark,
According to the lab the samples taken did not even come close to the mscs spec sheet for the fuel.
Chris,
I agree with you that the fuel from the drums needs to be tested to see if it mathces what was in the tank. I have samples, the local distributor has samples, and the other driver also has samples. vp has the fuel and was to test it 6 weeks ago. I never heard back from vp except for how to contact their legal dept.
I tend to agree with Mark that somewhere along the production line, one of the drums did not contain what we thought.
According to the lab the samples taken did not even come close to the mscs spec sheet for the fuel.
Chris,
I agree with you that the fuel from the drums needs to be tested to see if it mathces what was in the tank. I have samples, the local distributor has samples, and the other driver also has samples. vp has the fuel and was to test it 6 weeks ago. I never heard back from vp except for how to contact their legal dept.
I tend to agree with Mark that somewhere along the production line, one of the drums did not contain what we thought.
08-18-2007, 02:31 AM
#19
Guru
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Originally Posted by Tony356993
I tend to agree with Mark that somewhere along the production line, one of the drums did not contain what we thought.
Seriously though, very sorry to hear of this happening. I certainly hope to see a fair and reasonable resolution to this!
08-18-2007, 09:25 AM
#20
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chester County, PA
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Audi R10's werent in town to race that weekend, were they?
The stuff really smells like paint thinner or paint stripper. Nasty sh*t.
09-20-2007, 02:02 PM
#21
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chester County, PA
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Forensic Automotive Engineer:
"fuel contained 68.4% by weight Methyl Tertiary-butyl Ethyleme"
Normal levels are to be between 0.5% to 5%.
"...levels far exceeded what would be present in any normal fuel sample"
Before (Spring 2007Rebuild)
After (May 2007)
"fuel contained 68.4% by weight Methyl Tertiary-butyl Ethyleme"
Normal levels are to be between 0.5% to 5%.
"...levels far exceeded what would be present in any normal fuel sample"
Before (Spring 2007Rebuild)
After (May 2007)
09-20-2007, 02:12 PM
#23
Rennlist
Basic Site Sponsor
Basic Site Sponsor
Yep, kind of looks fuel related.
__________________
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
09-20-2007, 02:20 PM
#24
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chester County, PA
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What does VP have to say about this?? It seems pretty obvious now...
We will see. It is a huge marital issue as the motor was expensive to fix to get ready for this season and now we have another huge bill to deal with this fuel issue. There was only 3 DE events on a re-built motor before this issue. Ouch!
09-20-2007, 03:29 PM
#30
MTBE is probably something you can't even get your hands on nor does it sound like it's a by-product of old or bad fuel (look up MTBE on wikipedia). It's as if they gave you a drum of the stuff. A mislabeling perhaps? Clearly an error of some sort...not a drum of old fuel.