RickBetterley

The thread about Worst Instructors has gotten me thinking:
Most of my student have been fairly new (under 10, and mostly under 5) days on track.
For the newest students, or for those trying to get past a mental block, I try very hard to make a habit of good line, good braking points, and good acceleration points (as well as good track etiquette). This gives the student a good foundation, then I move on to fine tuning.
I think this works pretty well; generally these are multi-day events, and I get the same student for each day. So far, I have 'graduated' (from the School of Rick) very competent students that know how to get around the track quickly and safely.
Does this 'make it a habit' limit the student's future growth?
Honestly, I can't think of a better way to do it, but since its the only way I know, I sure would enjoy suggestions.
Thanks

TD in DC

No.

I don't like the idea that there are two (or more) different ways of driving well. In my opinion, there are, basically, two ways of driving: good and bad.

A technique that is good for DEs is also good for racing. There is no such thing as a single "line" that is correct for all occasions. It just doesn't exist. You choose your line based upon your objectives and the external conditions that exist at the time.

With respect to DEs, since you do not worry about racing, the best "type" of line is the line that is safest and fastest. All good drivers know that, when they visit a new track, they start out with a safer, but slower, line (e.g., late apex, yadda yadda) and then adjust the line over time to be faster. The great drivers don't need much time to do this adjustment.

A newbie needs to do exactly the same thing, which is why instructors should start off teaching the so-called "DE line." Newbies also need to learn all of the other basic skills before they worry about speed. Moreover, they need to learn that it is smoothness of the car, not smoothness of inputs, that counts. Of course, if you are below the limit, there is absolutely no reason why your inputs should not be extremely smooth, because if you cannot drive with smooth inputs below the limit, you likely will not be able to make the more "abrupt" or "decisive" inputs necessary to keep a car balanced at the limit.

It is like basketball. One should learn the basics (dribbling, passing, shooting) before he or she goes out in a game and try to imitate Michael Jordan.

Geo

It may be limiting in the extreme short-term, but laying this foundation IMHO is essential for the best (and quickest) long term improvement.

Gotta get the basics down sometime and if you don't do it at the beginning, you just have to go BACK to do it.

Geo

I still contend that those are one and the same. Each little correction on the wheel scrubs speed. Each adjustment to the throttle or brake potentially upsets the car. Yes, in reality, at the limit we make little corrections, but if we can eliminate those corrections (other than going slower to do so) we will ultimately be faster.

TD in DC

Well, then I guess we disagree. If "smoothness of inputs" is emphasized over "smoothness of the car," people can get the wrong idea that an abrupt input is always wrong. It is not. If you start to spin, you better open your wheel extremely quickly, and if you are watching on video, it may not look at that smooth, but that is irrelevant. You need to do what is required to keep your car under control. Failing to open a wheel quickly enough because you are trying to be smooth can cause newbies to spin unnecessarily.

As I said though, unless you are at the limit, there is no reason not to be smooth . . .

sjanes

Rick,

I try to teach "skills" and not just the track. Yes you have to teach the safe line around so the student knows where to go, but I don't use "points" or references to do so. I mostly concentrate on:
- vision skills. Look where you want the car to go.
- traffic awareness (both watching your mirrors, and not following the car in front)
- vision. Keep your eyes up!
- the line. Not only the what, but the why.
- vision. Get used to using your peripheral vision
- be nice to your fellow driver, buy the instructor a beer, yada yada.

My primary goal while instructing is not only to bring a student to a level where they are able to drive solo safely, but also so they have enough knowledge about the "why" to learn on their own.

insite

i think some input adjustments at the limit in a stiff car on a bumpy track can appear downright violent. the outputs, however, look smooth and clean. driving at the limit, one is constantly correcting / driving through over and understeer conditions, searching for grip. i think if the steering wheel isn't moving much, you aren't going as fast as you can go.

i agree w/ TD in DC that the goal is smooth output, even if this sometimes means that the inputs aren't so smooth.

sjanes

With a 5-10 day greenie, smooth inputs = smooth car. They aren't close enough (or shouldn't be) to the cars limit to be making small corrections to keep the car smooth.

Geo

Todd, I NEVER said you don't do what you need to do to keep the car under control. Gimme a break. Reread what I wrote. Also reread what I wrote about not going slower to be smoother. BUT, if one can smooth out the inputs without going slower, I guarantee you that you will go faster.

TD in DC

George, I am pretty sure we are talking about different things. All I am saying is that students need to be taught that the goal is to keep the CAR smooth. "Most" of the time, smooth inputs are the best way to keep the car smooth. But that is not always true, and students need to do what is necessary to keep their car settled and on the track.

Students just need to have their priorities straight. Smooth car with abrupt input is far superior to unsettled car with smooth inputs.

doc2s

i agree with what you said except that smooth inputs does not have to be slow.

Larry Herman

How's this sound? Use smooth inputs to maintain grip, quick inputs to restore it. That's what I find works for me.

TD in DC

Precisely. At all times, though, your primary goal is to keep the car smooth . . .

complexx

From a beginners point of view, I would say the most important aspects to introduce to a new student would be the following skills. IMO they should all be safety based (this list is composed of what I have been taught by several different instructors):

Awareness (sp??): who's in front, who's behind, who's next to you, where are the flaggers?

Where is your car? What part of the track should the car occupy on track entrance (from staging), on the straight, in a turn, passing another car, exiting the track... this can be fine tuned much more easily if the student is comfortable first.

Smooth inputs: turn the wheel, don't jerk it, squeeze the throttle on and off, squeeze the brake on and off, brake in a straight line, etc., get a feel for where the car should be... fine adjustments can come later when your comfortable.

I had a very good instructor who emphasized smoothness with throttle and brake application, it allows the car to remain MUCH more stable in transition and builds confidence within the driver (his analogy was "like your moving through molassas" when you apply brake and throttle)

Good habbits: use the dead pedal for your left foot, always keep two hands on the wheel during turns (whether your at speed or pitting out), check your mirrors often, if it's safe to do so, give the flagger a wave to let him know you acknoledge his existence... look as far ahead as possible so you can anticipate a problem, breath!

IMO, brake points, apex's, track out locations should come secondary to the above. These are aspects that will differ from instructor to instructor. You will be fooling around with them for the rest of your driving career to get around the track quicker. For beginners, simply point out general local for where the car should be. After the student gets comfortable, introduce the "you missed that apex by a foot" stuff.

To sum it up, I'd say your limitting what can be learned by the student if they aren't aware of their surroundings, smooth with their inputs and comfortable.

2BWise

How is this TD? Its just that after reading this it seesm to be a contradiction. How can you have a smooth car with abrupt inputs (for a smooth track, bumps, curbs not considered)? The inputs make the car move, if you jerk the wheel, the car jerks in response, and if you turn the wheel slowly the car smoothly transfers weight. Now I won't argue that there aren't instants and the necessity to make quick, possibly abrupt inputs, but that won't make the car smooth. The goal should always be smooth inputs. Abrupt input: EX: jumping on the brakes, 0-100% brakes almost instantly; car goes from full traction to full lock up because weight transfer occurs slower than the movement to 100% braking. EX: Whipping the wheel to the left to make a left-hand turn; car goes from grip to no grip because there is not enough time to transfer the weight and create grip. If your inputs are occurring faster than the car can physically respond than it isn't smooth and its isnt quick. But thats also why smooth inputs in a stock 944 and those in a formula ford look completely different. The response time of the formula ford allows the input to be quicker, but it will not happen faster than the car can transfer the weight and create the corresponding grip.