Z-man

[quote]Originally posted by Karl S:
<strong>I agree when it comes to downshifting, however upshifting is a different story. Turn 1/2 at VIR, for example, I downshift going in and get back on the throttle as soon as I can. I run out of revs before the track out point, so I upshift to 3rd while still in the corner.

If I wait until I'm out of the corner, the car is on the rev limiter for several seconds. I also do a 2nd to 3rd upshift between 5 and 5a, but the car is briefly straight there, so it's not really in a corner.

Karl</strong><hr></blockquote>
Maybe you need to be in 3rd entering the corners you speak of. If your car is bogging down in 3rd at turn in, maybe you need to go faster! I haven't been to VIR, but I've experienced the 'bouncing on the rev limiter' condition at Lime Rock. (Uphill and West Bend). My solution was to go into the Uphill in 4th instead of 3rd. My 944S2 has enough low end torque to carry me up the hill no problems. Plus I save a second or two at the top of the hill by not needing to upshift.

IMO, it's much less unsettling for a car to be in a higher gear than to shift in the middle of a turn!

YMMV.
-Zoltan.

Tim Comeau

Trailbraking allows you to brake into the turn, thus lengthening the straight. You also get some rotation done while braking. If you do all your braking in the straight before the turn in, you're going to have to brake earlier than me and I'm gonna pass you easily, maybe even on the outside. I'll still have a ton of weight on the front tires at turn in, you won't. It's critical to learn to match revs very well in road racing. If you can't do it, don't even try trail braking. And you should never use the engine to do the brake's job. That's different from throttle steering. Good luck.

Mike A.

I also agree that downshifts should be completed prior to turning. I also agree with Karl S in that sometimes you have to upshift when you run out of revs. If it happens in a corner, so be it.
Sometimes a lower gear, say 2nd, into a turn will carry more torque than entering in 3rd gear. Pick your spot in the turn for the upshift. Practice it. Check the revs on the tach at track out or at the next braking zone and compare both techiques.
I used to hold 4th (at the rev limiter) until the track out at the top of the essess at Watkins. Now I catch 5th when I begin to track out. I wait for the car to take a set and shift. I'm over 100 rpm higher at the brake zone into the Bus Stop.
A fraction of a second here and there makes for lower lap times.

Alan Herod

Watkin's Glen shift - Mike, I think the best place to catch fifth is when you cross the over-pass, between 3 and 4, basically a short shift. The car unloads there momentarily during the left to right transition. It only cost me 300 rpm in the braking zone which is a little slower then holding it to 6500 at track out but probably saves some wear and tear on the car.

As for Karl's strategy on 1-2 at Vir, I can never stay close enough to him to observe for very long, probably because I enter in third -- but at least I don't run out of revs in the 1-2 combination he is referring to, same thing with the similar 1-2 at Summit Point. I'm sure I could pick up a little bit between 5 and 6 at Summit but then I would have to shift to third in 6 and that could be a problem.

Maybe next year I will use second in a few more places.

Mike A.

Alan,
How you doin'?
You brought up shifting in the carousel at Summit.
Actually, some either lift or upshift at the top of the carousel causing trialing throttle oversteer. This sets you up very nicely for turn 7, *** swings around and you're looking right down 7, hug it to the right, upshift into turn 8. You know the rest.

Huntley Racing

There are situations where you just don’t really have a choice. A good example is turn 9 at Willow Springs. It's a fast decreasing radius type one turn (leading to long straight) with a nasty dip in the middle of the tight apex. A fast tall gear car like a C2, 951 etc... will need to come out of 5th gear and into 4th gear to still have torque advantage exiting turn 9. If you heel/toe to 4th before the start of nine (very open fast on entry) you are just cruising to the apex losing lots of time. In my old turbo 944 I would enter nine in 5th gear left foot braking slightly after turn in and applying light throttle to keep the turbo happy. As the turn continued to tighten I would no clutch shift to 4th, still braking, and keep the power on. As the apex approached the gas would come full down and the brakes would slowly be released until the car was in a nice power-on four-wheel drift. I would aim the car at least 2 car widths inside the apex to accommodate the drift. Things would always get busy when the car hit the dip but never was the car off boost. I would mess this up all the time and end up two and yes four wheels off at 130-140 MPH!! Yee Haw!! When it worked is was a great feeling and damb fast! This was the only way turn 9 felt right and the lap times really felt right too <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> or I had to brake out the shovel to dig my car out of the sand off turn 9 <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

Karl S

[quote]Originally posted by Alan Herod:
<strong>As for Karl's strategy on 1-2 at Vir, I can never stay close enough to him to observe for very long, probably because I enter in third -- but at least I don't run out of revs in the 1-2 combination he is referring to, same thing with the similar 1-2 at Summit Point. I'm sure I could pick up a little bit between 5 and 6 at Summit but then I would have to shift to third in 6 and that could be a problem.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Alan,

I do the same thing at Summit 1-2 that I do at VIR. I downshift to second coming off the straight, so I can get maximum acceleration out of the apex of 1. I run out of revs just about at track out, so I ****** 3rd while the car is settled before moving back to track right. I also short shift to 4th on the way down to 3, otherwise I'm bouncing the rev limiter there before the braking zone.

I carry 2nd through 5, 6, and 7, with an upshift to 3rd on the little straight between 7 and 8. It's a few extra shifts which can always invite problems, but I definitely found it faster than carrying 3rd all the time. Shifting under cornering "g's" can also be tricky, so make sure you snag the right gear.

Try it, you'll like it.

Karl

Alan C.

I've also used a 2-3 shift in 1 at VIR. I've also played with going in in 3rd and dropping a gear a third of the way around to rotate the rear a bit. Worked ok but I don't know if it was really any faster. Sure wouldn't do in the wet.

I'm hoping the new suspension this winter will get rid of the push I'm dealing with.

Alan

late apex

I shift up in corners all the time, as I run out of gear and have no choice if I want to run well. The trick is to be smooth. An example is turn 12 at Road Atlanta. I have to shift up twice in this turn, so there is really no alternative.I think I touch the shifter about 40 times in ne lap, and there are not 40 straight sections to do it in. I also occasionally downshift in turns , like 10a at Road Atlanta, but I do not let the clutch out until the car is straight. Never downshift in a turn is good advice.