Will

I've been going through a set of Pagid Orange brake pads every 4-5 track days in my '87 Carrera (no, guys, not the '97 Carrera S!). At around $400 for the set of four, it's getting tiresome! Yeah, I know, buck up and pay - they're good and it's fun.

Other than the usual suspects (Pagids, PF90's, Hawk Blues), does anyone have any positive experiences with other pads at the track? Carbon/Kevlar? Porterfield? ?? I've searched through the archives without a lot of luck.

I know you'll all laugh at me for saying this, but I just came back from my first visit to Mid-Ohio, and after wearing the remainder of a set of Pagid Oranges down, I switched to a back-up set of Metalmasters, and other than giving me a bit softer pedal, they did very admirably and wore well. At $34/axle set, that's amazing. I was turning low 1:50's, so not exactly driving like a grandma. Photo below is coming through turn 8.

Please be kind.

Will

Dave in Chicago

I'm getting 3-4 track days out of my KFP Magnum pads (fronts) and up to double that (rears). I drive them on the street in between in this dual-purpose, daily driver. They squeel like pigs on the street, but they don't crumble. They run about half the price of the Pagids. I get mine from Paragon Products.

Keep the shiny side up,

Howard

I'm amazed that you're only getting 4-5 track days from your Pagids. I'm on my second season with my first set of Pagid orange pads. My typical season is 24-30 track days and I just pulled the pads out to inspect them yesterday and I think I've got roughly 50 % left. Usually Pagids are rotor eaters, of course my car is probably much lighter than yours and I upgraded to TT front brakes and turbo rears.

stevehay

I race an '87 911 in PCA F class and get "about" 2 race weekends per set before they start to transfer too much heat into the rotors (I can only run them down to about 25% thickness). This is with stock Carrera calipers and rotors.

steve

'87 911
'95 993

Will

Howard - Not only is your car lighter, but you have a LOT more total pad area. Must be nice! I've often thought of upgrading to 930 or TT brakes, but haven't due to cost (brakes plus cost of moving away from Fuchs). I haven't considered the savings due to pad life. Hmm.

Dave - Are the KFP Magnum pads the same as the Carbon/Kevlar pads sold by Paragon? Have you tried other pads and found these to be most to your liking? Anything you can tell us beyond pad life would be of interest.

Steve, given your pad usage, I don't feel so bad now. I agree with you that going down too far into the pad can be a problem - I've warped a few rotors that way. The stock Carrera brakes need a lot of management. Can you tell us what you're running for wheels and tires (including sizes)? Also, I'm thinking of upgrading my stock suspension bushings to race versions with Sway-A-Way spring plates. I already have upgraded torsion bars, shocks, and adjustable ARBs. Have you done bushings? If so, was it worth it?

Thanks.

Will

Matt

The KPF's are the carbon/kevlar pads sold by Paragon, Jason once told me that they are the same as the ones that used to sold as Cool Carbon blue (but now painted dopey metallic gold...). I've used them for a long time and am pretty happy with them, particularly given the cost factor. I get five or six days out of a set of fronts, and toss them when there is about 1/3 pad material left.

Matt

stevehay

I currently run Fikse FM-5 wheels (8x17 front, 9x17 rear) and Hoosier tires (245s in front, 275s in the rear).

I do think that getting rid of the stock bushings was a worthwhile modification, but only because mine is a dedicated race car. Not sure if I'd do them all on a car I was driving on the street. For example, I haven't done this on my 993 but have made other suspension mods. Reason being that the ride is very stiff and noisy. From a track perspective, yes, it makes a difference.

The single biggest difference (outside of race tires) that I think I made was putting GREAT shocks on the car (JRZs, Motons, etc). These are expensive, but are worth it.

steve
'87 911
'95 993

Ed Newman

I just put Pagid Orange Pads in my Boxster to the tune of $550 for the pads! More than the 911 pads, I guess just lower volume. One DE day on them so far and they do stop SOOOO much better than the factory pads. They do show signs of wear though. I guess on issue is how low do you run them down. My mechanic recommends changing them at 1/2 way. Too close and the heat boils the hydraulic fluid. My next DE is a 2 day event with a co-driver so that will shed some real light onto how long they will last. I also drive them on the street and they squeak a little, but not enough to bother me.

Will

Steve,

How in the WORLD do you stuff that kind of rubber into your Carrera? On my '87 Carrera, I have a set of Fikse FM-10's that are the same size as yours (8 & 9 X 17), but the most I can run are 225's in front and 245's in back! And that's with having already moved an AC line. Just going to 255's in the rear (Hoosiers) causes both fender lip rubbing and oil line rubbing, so that's a no go. Do you have flared fenders? I'm assuming F-stock doesn't allow that, but...

Will

stevehay

It's a tight squeeze but it works. I use 1/4" spacers in the rear to avoid the oil lines. I have my a/c belt off and the freon removed, so I just let the tires rub on the lines in the front left fender well. As all 911 are slightly different, some people can never get these sizes to work, others can. Some end up moving the oil lines on the right rear. The wheel offsets have to be perfect.

225/245s are not a bad setup as they give you much better gearing with the stock ring and pinion than the taller 275s in the rear, but the extra grip is worth it. If you can't make 275s work, I would suggest staying with 245s in the rear rather than going with the taller 255s. The slight extra bit of grip won't offset the gearing hit you take.

steve
'87 911
'95 993

UrbanSasquatch

Ed, if you want to get a little more life out of the Pagids, invest in some Castrol SRF fluid. It has a 518 F wet boiling point-- I use it in my H-stock club racer and have NEVER experienced any fade, even in a 30-lap race, with aluminium "S" calipers. It's not cheap at about $70/liter but worth it if you are experiencing boiling.

p.s. See you at the Autocross

John Cramer

Ed Newman

Good idea John, I will have to put that in the new car. Are you going to the Summit Point DE?

Bill Gregory

We all use brakes differently. Danny Sullivan relates a story about him and Rick Mears racing at Laguna Seca. Said Rick finished the race with 70/1000's of pad left while Danny only used 70/1000 of the pad in winning the race. (In "going faster")

If fade is a problem, and you've already got air flowing to the rotors, you might try Seine Systems titanium pads that go between the pad and caliper piston. Slows the transfer of heat to the brake fluid. <a href="http://www.seinesystems.com" target="_blank">www.seinesystems.com</a>

C2P996

I went from stock pad to oranges on my 2000 C2. The stocks would last maybe 2 days (at Road America they faded after 15 minutes). I've run on orange for 2 DE at Mid-Ohio (1.47's) and Mosport (1.38's). After 5 hot track days, pads are still good! If your pads are not lasting maybe you're riding them a little long.

tifosiman

[quote]Originally posted by Bill Gregory:
<strong>

If fade is a problem, and you've already got air flowing to the rotors, you might try Seine Systems titanium pads that go between the pad and caliper piston. Slows the transfer of heat to the brake fluid. <a href="http://www.seinesystems.com" target="_blank">www.seinesystems.com</a></strong><hr></blockquote>

Hmm. Interesting. I had been wondering about making a product like that for myself, but didn't know that they already existed. I thought I'd buy these when I saw this posting, but apparently they don't list the shields for front 928S4 calipers. I have full access to 6/4 titanium sheeting due to my job (in the titanium bicycle industry), and will be making some of these for my 928S4 calipers (two per caliper). Since I'll already have the pattern set to cut, any other rennlister interested that has the same calipers? I'd just charge whatever the Ti cost me plus shipping.


Tifo

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