Brian_77_3.6

Did you inspect the rotors before the trip to the track. Perhaps they where already grooved by a previous pad backing plate contact. And I suspect the pads where not anything to write home about. How much fluid is left in the brake resevior? Want to be sure you dont have a master cylinder issue causing the soft pedal. Soft pedal and additional travel can also be caused by air still being left in the system. Even after bleeding/flush and having a good hard pedal if there is air in the system as soon as you get the fluid hot you will get a soft pedel and more travel.

CCCP

Thorough group, nice. I had recently flushed the system with ATE blue, and the pedal was VERY firm before seeing the track. There was also PLENTY of pad material to begin with. And although the rotors weren't new, their surface looked fine.

I'd like to order the parts today or tomorow morning to have them shipped by tomorow, can anyone answer these question please?

And what's this about taking off the splash shields?

Lemming

KFP golds should be fine, that is what I was using prior to upgrading to the 4-piston Wilwoods (Rennbay). The splash/rock guard is on the back side of the rotor, removing it will allow for better cooling. As for rotors, I have the Powerdiscs shown on the page you listed and like them alot.

Joe P. - single piston calipers are appear adequate, until you ride in a car with 4-caliper pistons, then there's no comparison.

bgiere

ditto on the KFP Magnum Golds...used them for years on my 1988 944 and 911....they were great for DE's and street as long as you don't mind a little squeak and squeel....

Oddjob

I would not take off the backing plates (splash shields), they protect the ball joint and tie rod boots from direct heat from the brake rotors. You can cut holes in them or cut the upper section off to allow better airflow from any added cooling scoops.

Certain pads will cut grooves in rotors. Ive had that happen with pagids blacks and hawks. 4mm deep? Thats almost 3/16" which would almost be worn through to the vented slots.

The rotors that Paragon carries are Zimmerman. Some claim that Zimmerman are the same as Porsche rotors, but others believe the Porsche rotors are made to a higher casting/material spec than the aftermarket Zimmerman (even if the OE Rotors are made by Zimmerman). I personally believe that the Porsche rotors are better and last somewhat longer than the aftermarket Zimmerman, but the Porsche rotors do cost a little more - so thats the trade off.

If you dont know what the pads are, take them out and throw them away. You need to know what pads you have in there when running on the track, and they should be a pad that is made for track use. There are various brands that are suitable.

Also, keep in mind that often, beginning students/drivers can be very hard on the brakes, since they tend to slow down too much for the corners. As the driver gets faster through the corners, they use the brakes less. So a car that first felt seriously underbraked, overtime, will start to feel stable, safe, and the brakes will be generally fade free.

M758

The two are..

Our Price: $48.75
Product Code: PP911.351.041.20

Our Price: $40.00
Product Code: PP477.405.083A

Hmm maybe one is factory and the other is aftermarket. Call them and ask.

JCP911S

Crummy pads, I'd bet.

New rotors are not expensive. I typically consider rotors and pads to be comparable wear items... for My SC the pads cost MORE than the rotors... so don't sweat replacing them if they look marginal.

Pads have a huge effect on both performance and how the system overall reacts to heat... good racing pads not only have compouds designed to operate at high temperatures, they also reduce the amount of heat delivered into the system as a whole.

Generally, pads worn more that 1/2 way significantly reduce performance, so generally they should be replaced at that point.

Also, a thorough check of your whole system is worthwhile.... do the calipers need rebuilt? You may also want to preemptively replace the master cylinder and the rubber hoses.

THis is a bit of money, but brakes are the last place to cut corners....

Z-man

That's what I use, and they are very rotor friendly, and don't require that much heat to be effective. I mostly track my car, but it does see some street use, and though the KFP's squeel more than 'street' pads, they work fine.

Colin: your 914 came STOCK with two piston clampers? I thoughts the brakes were optional on those cars! Who needs brakes?!?

-Z.

racer

Maybe I missed it, but, How old (years and mileage) were the rotors before the event. Looking at the surface corrosion on nearby parts, I couldn't help but think the rotors were well used to begin with.

KFP's are fine. Hawk blues, PF97's are all good pads for your application. Indeed, not only suck the fluid from the resevoiur but do a complete flush and bleed of the system with new fluid (Blue or Gold ATE works great!).

Other things you might consider:

1) Brake Less
2) Add air scoops to the front brakes to get cooling air on them
3) You might consider SS lines, but they will only improve feel, not overall performance plus, as 38D points out, you will not be able to see cracks before its too late!

mitch236

I guess I will be the first to recommend this so here goes. Most first timers will complain about their brakes. It is very common to think your brakes are not good enough. Before you spend alot of money on new components, stick with the stock setup and have a reputable shop assess what you have done. It is impossible to tell from your pictures. Just because you have new ATE fluid, it is still possible (and probable) to boil the fluid and cause the symptoms you have. I agree that you should increase airflow to the brakes. Brake management is a skill not to be overlooked.

*Sorry, I just saw page two. I'm not the first to suggest better brake management.

JBH

Good advice! Don't underestimate the possibility of boiling brakes at Lime Rock. Whe you pedal gets that soft, think about slowing down a bit, staying off hard braking and letting the brakes cool down a bit

mrbill_fl

For the budget minded..... used, old and rusty rotors have been heat cycled a bizillion times, work almost as well as the frozen (cryogenic) rotors. (I use to to hunt for them when IT racing, and actually prefered them to new)

if you can find some 'nice' use rotors, they work well and are real cheap.

But this is not your real need, as others already said... air ducts, better pads and now new rotors are in order.... good news is pads and rotors are cheap and are by design disposable. (as are tires).

I bought a spare hub and bring a 'prepared' rotor with me to most events... takes about 20 min (or less) to swap out at the track.

Pierre Martins

Maybe you should think about getting rid of all the rust on the callipers, rotor hats and whatnot, service the callipers, skim the rotors and put braided lines with new OEM pads.

mitch236

DON"T put OEM pads on if you are using the car on the track. Use racing pads.

Again, do minimal upgrading at this point as you are probably going to cook anthing you put on there. I am reminded of a certain "colorchange" who took his new 996TT on track and stated that the brakes "sucked". Of course, it was him that "sucked" (not really but you get the point). Take your time with upgrades. They may put your car in a class that it is not competitive in.

38D

Who said I had to use them. I was black flagged quite a few times for "no brake lights" until I explained that I didn't need to brake for very many corners. That thing was dog slow. Ah, the joys of 80rwhp