carreracup21

I agree with this. Never underestimate what a great driver can do in a well developed car. BTW, last weekend I got to see first hand what some of those great drivers are capable of in GA Daytona 24 Rolex practice. It was very humbling to say the least, and probably the best learning experience I've ever had. Try stepping out of a car when you felt like you were hauling A, and then watching a pro go 3-4 seconds faster in the same car. It kind of puts things in perspective. A couple of mph faster in all the right places can add up to a world of difference in your lap times. As much as we all want it to be the car, mostly it's just someone who knows how to get it around.

John H

Let me add my 2 cents as a devil's advocate.

I chased carreracup21 around CMP in November. He smoked me and my 993. He smoked everyone in D and most if not everyone in C. I saw his best laptimes on the data sheets. I was quite a bit slower. I figured it was my car/alignment/tires.... Anyway, one day while sitting through a meeting at which I had my laptop, I played around with my data acquisition from CMP. One thing I did was have the system calculate my best theoretical lap. It takes my best segment times and puts them together basically saying this is what you and the car are capable of if you ran your perfect lap. My perfect lap was quicker than Carreracup21's best laptimes. I'd have to go back to see the different race times to be sure, but it was 1-2 sseconds IIRC.

The driver does really make the biggest difference within classes in most cases. The moral is Bill could probably trade me cars and beat me.

DrJupeman

Larry, are you going to force me to start doing things to my car? Dare I invest in a set of headers to stave off the Larry Herman onslaught?

carreracup21

Thanks John, sometimes it's just a matter of putting it all together and being consistant. The pros go fast and do it lap after lap after lap. Hmm, I wonder what my perfect lap would have been at CMP ? You can always go faster.

Larry Herman

Ha! Just wait and see how quick it really is before you spend any money. You may not need to.

MJR911

John H. It is so refreshing to see someone on here finally admit that THEY (and not the car) are the biggest factor in the equation. There will always be someone better, you can suck it up and LEARN or you can bitch and always be slow. Some rationalize, some are competitve. I've been absolutely humbled in spec miata racing, but you can bet the house I won't be for long.

Brian Bailey is spot on, prepare any car to the limit of the rules and if you can drive you'll do well (and i'm not talking Henzler here). PCA is ameteur and if you were that good you'd be getting paid. I'm getting sick of hearing 2% of the PCA club racers bitch and moan on here b/c they're not competitive in PCA. Well the other 98% LOVE the club, like the simple system and have a ball racing with the guys around them.

FWIW, you'll never equalize different chassis like you think. A 993 has better suspension geometry to begin, and I bet I could have one built that would be very competitive. 6 speed, aero kit, remote shocks, Randy Pobst training for a weekend.... OOHHH YEAH.

ok, rant over. For all the non haters, i'll be at the Chateau Elan bar in a few weeks!

38D

Btw, if Ron Savenor could run 2:12 at the Glen in a F class Carrera, then a 993 can too. 2:12 would have been 2nd place in D in 2005.


Mmm...beers. See you in a couple weeks!

Manny Alban

I ran a C2 in F class for several years, finishing mid pack most of the time (won one race, but had to go all the way out to Denver to do it), and the car went unnoticed. THEN, several very fast drivers started campaigning C2's and the writing was on the wall or in this case, the results. Yes, the potential of the C2 was always there, but it took guys like Savenor and Zitzman to show what the car could really do.

So now I run in C and I'm still not very competitive, but I have a great time. Could I sell the car and buy a competitive model? Sure, but I really love my C2. It's great for DE, Club Race and I even get to drive the kids (one at a time) to school when the weather is really nice

38D

Welcome back!

Greg Fishman

I think so. How much weight would you add to a 993TT to get it equal to say 993RSCS or even a 996?

I wouldn't want to drive a 4000lb 993TT.

Carrera51

This is a good discussion. On the 996s, I wouldn't mind seeing the 3.4s get a weight reduction. PCA has done something like this already by giving the 84-86 Carrera 93 lb reduction to even them up with the 87-89 Carreras that had a little more HP. I don't have a 996 so I am giving an unbiased opinion.

I am one of those guys who has what others would not consider as the ideal car for E class. Sure there are cars in my class that appear better on paper, but so what. I have a good time and manage to scrape out a podium in class here and there. Sure there are some F class guys, Gregg Wilson, Greg Merril, Gary Grigsby, just to name a few, who are faster, but so what. I just want to experience some good racing, which when E and F are combined, there is not shortage of that. That's the reason I got into this crazy hobby in the first place.

TheOtherEric

Well that's interesting. PCA sometimes attempts to balance intra-class competition. Hmmm. Seems like a case can be made for reducing spec weights on some "uncompetitive" cars (ignoring for a moment the argument that "uncompetive" cars don't exist).

BTW, is the Cayman going to be the new D Class killer? Compared to a 993, it's 110 lbs lighter, more modern suspension, up 13 hp, more rigid chassis, and mid engine. Ugh.

38D

I wouldn’t mind seeing the handicapped cars like the 3.4 996s and 95 993s get a weight break, though my guess is it would be quite small. I believe that in the hands of a good driver that a 996 can win in C and that a 983 can win in D.

IMHO, there will always be people willing to find the best cars in a given class. In D it used to be the Euro cups, then they got booted to GTC1. Currently the USA Carerra Cups seem to dominate. But is that really the car or the drivers (probably a little of both). The 91-91 C2 Turbos are certainly good cars, though I think I am the only person driving one on the east coast right now. Sooner or later, a really good driver will campaign a 993 and win…then it will be viewed as a good car too. The only car that is probably “unfair” is the 944 Turbo Cup, since they typically run nearly 2 seconds faster than anything else. Personally, I could care less, since there are so few of them that even exist.

With a good driver, the Cayman will be a capable car, though it may take a year or two until people figure out how to set them up. The car to have in D is the 92 3.3 Turbo S, which was a Euro car. At 380hp and running at 3000lbs, it would crush everything. In C class it’s the 3.6 Turbo S with close to 400hp and at 3274lbs. The problem is they are both $150k+ collector cars. There’s also the ‘92 Turbo S2, which was the Andial conversion car. That was also up near 380hp and would technically run in D..

MJR911

A year or two ago there was a rumor that an "infamous" NE guy had gotten his hands on one of the Bridgestone Supercar 92 911 turbo S2s that was driven by Hans Stuck (i think) to the championship. And he was coming to Sebring to run D!! That car and driver would have won D... and C and B.

analogmike

PCA did not balance the F class 3.2 carreras. Those weights are factory specs, the later cars got heavier due to G50 etc yet were running at the same weight as the earlier cars for years until someone pointed it out and PCA agreed to let the earlier 3.2 Carreras run at the correct lower weight.