David K.

NASCAR mandated SFI 38.1 spec for head and neck restraints which the R3 passed.
The R3 is approved for the 2005 season with SCCA PRO, ARCA, HOOTERS PRO CUP and ASA and is already used in IMSA , NHRA and IHRA. At this time the designer of the R3 is working with NASCAR/Grand-Am to get approval.

David K.

tontobird

I would think that the instructor/passenger should be responsible for their own H & N device. In any case, doesn't it require a new helmet? Or at the very least the mounting hardware which attaches to the helmet, which is different for all H & N devices......

SundayDriver

2 wheels off gets a quick squirt in the face.
4 off and the student gets hit with the bottle.
Any mention of DAS until your can actually drive a car and you get the entire bottle emptied in your crotch.

Dirt Track Racer

My point is a simple one. ARCA is as far removed from NASCAR as SCCA is. NASCAR touring series is about 7 steps down the ladder from the NASCAR we all know and love. To be honest I didn't realize that Hutchens was still legal in ARCA - I dont keep up with that series too much.

At any rate, my point is a simple one. The reason that in the majority of major racing series the HANS is the only approved H&N piece isn't because of marketing.

Larry Herman

You know, the R3 device makes a really good paddle just in case the student was being really bad.

BTW, sign me up Mark. I'd LOVE to instruct for your school.

tontobird

OMG, stop, you guys are cracking me up!!

gbaker

The performance level called for in SFI Spec 38.1 is a yawn. In fact, we kicked butt on that sled on Tuesday.

Bull

OK, I'm in for instructing at your Droving School. LSD can make a full, high speed spin the highlight of your day!

Timothy Leary - Chief Instructor

Bull

Actually, if you look and read, I gave two reasons. Sorry the tongue-in-cheek one got your shorts in a wad!

Again, there are more choices that have passed the required certifications today than there were when the requirements were written, in many cases.

TD in DC

OK, I might sign up for your school if the instructors were hot women. Baby you can drove my car.

Somehow, though, the thought of getting paddled with an R3 by Larry, John H., Zoltan, Alan H. or any of you other guys just isn't doin it for me. Sorry guys.

Dirt Track Racer

Hey Bull, the Yugo and the Volvo sedan both passed the same safety standards certifications to be sold in the US. Does that mean the Yugo is as safe as the volvo sedan?

But honestly, I have no knife in this fight. I will concede that some H&N is better than no H&N. If the R3 really works with stock belts then I guess thats a plus. Although in all my experience I have never seen a basal skull fracture happen in a wreck using stock belts. In fact, the whole reason the basal skull fracture happens in the first place is because the 6 point point belts hold the body much tighter to the seat than does a stock 3 point shoulder belt. So with the 6 point, only the head can move forward. With the 3 point belt the whole body moves some with the head, so no chance of basal skull fracture.

Disclaimer: I am not an engineer. But I did stay in a holiday inn last night and I am friends with lots of engineers in the racing industry.

Larry Herman

Now you just have to figure out a way to use your dampeners independent of the belts. Maybe you could take the R3 backboard, cut off the top piece, and mount them to the top of the cross bar?

Larry Herman

What you say makes a lot of sense, but why take a risk and be the first? There are also less severe consequences than death, like cervical damage, permanent neck injury, etc. that the device should help with, but that is conjecture on my part. Based upon the tests that I have seen though, the supposed superiority of the Hans occurs at such a high G loadings that in such a severe impact I would be more concerned with other types of fatal injuries, like a ruptured aorta, or other internal organ damage. Just a cheery thought.

gbaker

Larry,

Yup, that would work. Or replace the standard tethers with the dampers, on either the R3 or Hutchens II. By "work" I mean pass the SFI load limits (probably), not post extremely low values. Any time you literally wear the device loads will be higher; the device moves on the suit which moves on the skin which moves on the skeleton, etc.

Anyone want to crash one? Seriously. You guys donate an R3, pass the hat for the lab fee and we'll throw in the dampers and set everything up.

Alan Herod

I appreciate all the well thought out comments. I have been vacillating between one approach and another and the last comment is something that I had heard before.

As far as the original story goes, to the point. I said I felt uncomfortable when the driver donned his helmet equipped with his Hahns device. To finish the story -- my discomfort went away as we began the session and the driver demonstrated the advanced skill, poise, and judgement commensurate with his run group (Red). He only increased my confidence in his ability.