Rick

I may get flamed for this question but I'll ask at my own risk...

While at the PCA race at Road America several weeks ago, I was hit going into turn #12 on the opening lap of the enduro. Not surprisingly since it was lap #1, there were a bunch of cars going 2 wide going into the turn. I was in a string of cars that was on the inside going into turn #12 and I had passed an F car that was slower going into the brake zone.
Rather than staying on the outside, the driver of the F car came in directly for the apex - I saw this & moved partially off track and applied brakes but was unable to avoid contact.
The race stewards inspected my video and said there was no doubt that the other driver was at fault. The corner worker report said that I was completely in front of the other car before the turn in point. The other driver's race shop viewed the video and completely agreed that he was at fault.
Ironically, the other drive continued on and never reported to black flag station (but that's another story...).
While at the track, the other driver looked at the video and said himself that he was at fault - he said he never saw any of the cars on the inside going into the corner. He also said that he would "accept financial responsibility" for the damage he had caused. Since then, he's been unresponsive to several communications and I'm highly doubtful that he'll actually cover any of my expenses.
So...my question...am I off base to think that someone should take responsibility for the damages they cause...even when in a race? I'd like to think that if I caused damage to another's car due to my mistake that I'd assist with the expenses but maybe that's just me.

RedlineMan

Hmmm...

It's a nice thought, Rick, but ultimately open to huge interpretation, and not very practical. The main problem in most instances is determining when somebody flat blew it, and when it was just "a racing accident."

Since he opened his mouth and said something to the effect that he was "on the hook," it would be nice for him to follow through. I would certainly ask him if he intended to be a man of his word and honor his verbal commitment, but I would not bank on it to any great degree.

M758

I feel that when racing you take your car into your own hands. You need to to be prepared for any damage that may happen. It may be your fault or it maybe some other bonehead.

However I race a cheap 944 for an important reason. If break it can can live it it. Sadly I cannot pay to fix someone GT3Cup. I certainly would never do anything to damage another car, but mistakes can happen. I believe there are many situations were a small error can result in totally destroing an innocent victim's expensive car. If I had to pay $100k for that small error I would stop racing. I can afford to write off my 10k car however and that is why I race it. If I could pay to write off a $100k car then I would racing one of those.

So in general any damage on my car is my responsibility my fault or not. Now if the other driver (or even If I am that other driver) needs to be penalized per the scantioning bodies rules.


In your case you "other driver" seems to have offer and said he will help. In this case he is on hook for no reason other than he said he would pay. You have nothing you can do make him pay, but his word would not be what it was if he does not.

So if you as raceer are ever involved in a incident and you accept fault, do not off to pay to fix things unless you REALLY mean it.

Wreck Me Otter

I've offered to pay for damage that I've caused and the folks I've raced with never accepted. On the other had, I've not gotten any such offers from those who caused me damage.....

Of course he never saw any cars inside, he never bothered looking....and worse yet, an enduro with mixed classes?...what a dunce...

Larry Herman

Some racers are just **** poor drivers. If we went around making all the idiots pay for their stupidity.......wait a sec, now there's a novel idea! At least in racing someone can't do anything stupid and then sue you on top of it.

John H

Thaankfully I've never hit another car. However, I feel it is the risk you run in racing. I have been hit and did not expect nor did I receive any consideration from the offender. I guess I was upset but I didn't think too much about it becasue I figured anyone can make a mistake. Now, if I was Wolf Henzler and intentionally got hit, that's another story....

Z-man

Though not club racing, I witnessed something very interesting at a DE:

Apparently, a 951 threw a coolant hose in a turn, spilled the slippery stuff on the track, and the 914 right behind him spun and hit the armco off the side of the track.

After the incident, (and after the 914 driver calmed down a bit), the 944 owner walked right up to the 914 driver, profusely apologyzed, and offered to at least cover the cost of the parts that needed replacement. He then wrote a check for $1500.00 on the spot.

The way I understand it, at a DE, the owner/driver of the car is ultimately responsible for any damage that is incurred upon his or her car. But this gesture that the 944 owner did was, IMHO, a very honorable gesture.

My $0.42,
-Z-man.

JPhillips-998

I go around about this as well. I have never hit, but been hit twice. Neither offered any compensation.

One thought might be to fine drivers that are CLEARLY in the wrong. Send the $$ to a charity but make the drivers realize that there are ramifications for their idiocity.

Rick, your incident is one that I would say the driver should be fined. There was another last year at Carolina that I recall. Some guy coming up on the inside grass and took out about 5 cars at the start.

JW in Texas

Been there, done that. Other driver never even bothered to apologize. $ 6k later & I couldn't even tell you what the guy looks like. Thanks a lot But I'm not bitter or anything

rockitman

determining full negligence or especially, contributory negligence..., would be difficult if not impossible to do fairly...

kary993

I believe the rules are simple and straight forward for racing or any other event (DE or Time Trial). You are responsible for your own car. The only way to punish drivers that crash into people alot is with probation or have them sit out for a period like a 13/13 rule. The other is the philosophy and attitude of the club toward reckless drivers. This can have a big effect on drivers through peer pressure. I believe all these are employed in most clubs to some degree.

JackOlsen

Consider the alternative, and you'll see why clubs do it the way they do. If my club decides they'll make judgments about fault and distribute blame (100/0, 80/20, 60/40 or whatever), then I can give myself a competitive advantage by showing up in an original GT-40 or some million-dollar car, knowing that many of my competitors don't have the financial resources to write a check for even a percentage of the damage if a race accident occurs. As a result, I get a wide berth from all but the richest drivers, and I win.

It's an exaggerated example, but it points to the headaches enforcement would involve in a non-insured world filled with gray-area decisions on what's being reckless and what's merely aggressive. Would you need to have all drivers post some sort of bond before a race? Is my accountant going to have to ride in the passenger seat to let me know which cars I can afford to make a move on?

Capt. Carrera

Jack's got it right. You're responsible for your own car. There is no way I could even cover the cost of parts for some of the cars that show up at my local track. (Carrera GTs, a 917, multiple Ferraris)

That's why I always advise tracking a car you can afford to walk away from. Sure, it way hurt your wallet. But losing the car shouldn't bankrupt you.

aeshultz

I think the standard response is "depends on the series." In vintage racing, the conventional wisdom is that you always offer to pay for damage, and the offer is usually refused. In Club Racing - ?? In SCCA - they don't even bother to find you in the paddock and apologise, it's so commonplace.
Alan

Bill L Seifert

This kind of discussion could only happen at a PCA race or some Historic organizations. I race mostly SCCA, and have been hit many times. I don't think I have ever hit anyone, except once, my first year in 1985, and that was from being in reverse instead of first, leaving the scales. I backed into a Spridget, and crunched his air dam. He threw a full can of Coke at me, I appologized profusely, but neve thought about offering to pay. Noone has ever offered to pay me, when they hit me, sometimes on purpose. But, that is the difference between SCCA and PCA.

I remember at Rensport II at Daytona last year, when some PCA'ers got hit by SCCA drivers, and there was fiberglass shards all over the Horseshoe. The PCA drivers were appalled at the lack of 13/13. I don't think anyone hit anybody on purpose, but the guys who race where there is the 13/13 got their eyes opened, when the SCCA guys didn't slam on the brakes when some PCA drivers didn't see them on the inside, and moved toward the apex, and got clobbered.

Getting back to the main idea of this thread, making someone pay when they do something stupid, would be impossible to enforce. To be real honest, I had never thought about until now. I never really liked the 13/13, but my car should looked better back then, when I raced PCA.

Bill Seifert

1987 944S Race Car