Adam Richman

I regard someone passing me within inches as showing me respect. Someone 17 feet away, opposite side of the track, is really pissing me off. That's a great way to slow me and him and thus me again, down.

Its also THE best way to come out of possible contact situations w/ ONLY tire marks vs. much worse.

JCP911S

Hand me the bat..... now where's that dead horse..?

Seriously, my only point is a very theoretical one... and that is that 13/13 is going to change the risk/reward relationship relative to unrestricted racing. Emerging with "just" scrapes and tire marks will get you just as suspended as T-boneing somebody.

That does not make 13/13 better or worse... just different. It requires a different driving style and a different approach to managing risk.

Call me a pansey, but I have a very tight budget and a very expensive car to repair. My reluctance to risk my car would put me at a much bigger disadvantage in SCCA. Personally I like the fact that the rich guy beside me has just as much incentive to avoid contact as I do.

Greg Fishman

13/13 does on occasion cause more damage than "normal" racing would. Explaination: you may make a more evasive manuever because you are worried about tapping someone that unintentionally braked earlier than expected and getting a 13. You slide off track and possibly hit a wall, another driver, or just have a regular OTE and lose a lot of places. SCCA racing you just tap that person leaving a small mark and continuing to race. Hopefully both cars are none the worse for wear. I have seen/heard of many situations like this in PCA.

I don't think I am way off here but I am sure I will be told if I am.

JCP911S

No, you are probably right. There's an upside and downside to everything.

Another factor is that somebody who does drive in a wild intimidating mannor or blocks excessively can create an advantage since it is the responsibility of the other driver to avoid contact.

I can tell you that at the top 1/3rd of the most competitive classes the guys have been racing together for years and I guarantee you, they aren't motoring around sipping tea with their pinkies out.

Greg Fishman

I agree with you as well. I remember a fellow racers commenting on another guy in our classes tactics. "What he lacks in talent, he makes up in being an absolute nut." Most gave him a wide berth.

SundayDriver

I worked corners for a Grand-Am race that included PCA races. I saw a lot of folks make wild, unpredictable moves if they got very close to anyone else. 2 or 3 times there were near wrecks as one car veered away from another, only to almost hit a third - all in an apparent attempt to avoid contact. I have never seen anything like it in any other group.

RedlineMan

Hey All;

Everyone is making good points here. Greg is right on the mark with Post #48. Sunday follows on sagely. Guys too afraid of contact can indeed cause WORSE contact by trying to avoid the little ones. It's a tough thing to think of your baby getting crunched. Not necessarily smart to race your baby in the first place, I guess.

Of course, Der Professor probably has more race miles than 10 other guys here combined, and his comments on tactics are exquisite and much appreciated, even by non-racer-wannabees like me.

Prof: I did not mean to say that I would go around randomly terrorizing my fellow competitors. However, I would make it plain to anyone "lacking in judegment" that if they did so to my continuing dissadvantage, I would not look the other way again. I would hope to be right over apologizing if I committed a blunder that cost someone else. It would be my guess that if YOU were the party that had an error in judgement, you would say so mano e mano, as a good man would, and should. Saying you are sorry that someone got pranged in a "racing accident" goes a long way. Really fessing up when you blow it is even better.

Alan C.

At the MidOhio club race I followed a red GT3 car in B with my D 993 around for about 6 laps. I'd catch him in the corners get to his door and he'd chop me off in the corner every time. At least 4 times I went agro. Ultimately gave up because of the 13/13. I was convinced he didn't know where I was. But it was fun catching his GT3 in an 82,000 mile daily driver 993

esscape26

The 13/13 does lessen damage, from my reporting vantage at many races, SCCA, NASA and PCA. It cant create bullying, where the one most afraid of contact loses out in a close battle; and where one driver, maybe even or a little faster in a spot, dive bombs. But overall, a good thing in avoiding car to car contact.

I do like in NASA, where they encourage two drivers to work it out if damage is minimal; at least people know a conversation is coming.

However, I was hit 3/4 broadside in a NASA event, by a wild car who went off and re-entered at 70mph to avoid hitting the corner station. This was 3 turns from the checkered.Over $4000 damage; not one word from the guy, and he went and got a trophy.

Courtesy tells you in more major hits to, at least, go check on the person, if not offer some car parts or something.

PM

Professor Helmüt Tester

Don't envy me...the large smoking hole that racing blows into my personal finances will probably make me work a few extra years before I either retire or take the dirt nap. Halfway thru a '4 race weekends in a row' stretch right now...trailer is loaded and I'm off to Ohio this afternoon for a sprint and enduro-fest. To quote Mr. Zevon - "I'll sleep when I'm dead."

I didn't think that you would, but there are impressionable children here who might think that being a raging fcvkwitz in the paddock is acceptable. It's not.

I have had to both accept and offer mucho 'mea culpas' for on-track shenanigans. If you're accepting them, it's OK to still be pissed...you don't have to say "OK...don't worry about it". It's a 'learning moment' for those involved...use it as such. I've also gotten drilled and knew instantly that it was purely accidental, and given the appropriate wave to an offered 'Sorry!' wave on track.

It helps to know sign language, apparently, unless you're a telepath.

MJR911

Alan, I think CarreraCup21 knows all about that Red gt3.... looked like it held him up all day during the Sebring race in February.

analogmike

Professor Helmüt Tester, I guess I missed who you actually are, I must know you if you race that much. Email if you want to keep it private.

Geo

Unnecessary? Implied lack of courtesy? I'm sorry, but you have to be kidding. What is discourteous? As long as somone isn't touching me, nor are they making me move over to avoid contact by moving themselves towards me, it's all cool. I simply don't see where the problem is. This is racing. Maybe my perspective is a bit skewed from racing karts for 8 years where 1/2" is racing room, and this with open wheels.

IMHO if the other person is in control and I'm in control we can race pretty darned close. If we are driving in a straight line (such as braking before a corner), what's the big deal? I can drive straight and I think the other guy can with no problems. As for someone taking the inside line and preventing turn-in, that's racing. I just don't get the objection.

JCP911S

I think a trip around the paddock apologizing for personal stupidity is possibly more painful than stroking a check..... certainly makes you alot more careful in the future.

No racer should EVER expect payment... its the risk you take... take it like a man... but not to apologize for a f*ckwit move...especially one that causes damage is inexcusable IMHO... that is extremely disrespectful

Professor Helmüt Tester

Ahhh the mystery of it all. Who is 'Der Professor' ? Inquiring minds want to know.Well...we'll just leave it that way for a while, the reality might be a let-down.

Analog-man - we've never met, but you've probably encountered me on-track with the HRG (or the former VHS) vintage guys, as I've usually made a ~once-a-year~ appearance with them from the late 90's on - several of the HRG regulars know me by my real-life 'nom de guerre' from either racing or when I was a Chief Instructor-weenie at HPDE or racing schools. Clue - I'm on the 'Rock Rookey/Joe Volpe/Peter Baselice' end of the grid, rather than in 'smoking little small-bore'-land. You and I were in different race groups at the SCCA Nat'l at the Glen this year...but was kinda busy as was also a 'moderately High Muckety-Muck' that weekend. Don't think our paths have crossed other than that.

Held/hold licenses with SCCA, SCCA Pro, Midwest Council, NASA, EMRA, CASC and some esoterically weird motorcycle road race clubs (some in Canada, even !). Counted 24 different race sanction #'s in 2004, including two 12 hours and a 13 hour, and I probably missed a few. Sick, huh ?

There are some here who know me personally. Some who don't would probably only say 'oh...that a$$hole !' if/when they found out. Mr. Sunday Driver knows my antics up close, and we've even raced together, but just once, I think...that weird ALMS/Trans-Am/Nat'l weekend at Mid-O a few years ago ? I'll claim I beat him....he'll claim he beat me...real story is that neither of us were on the podium.

The mystery continues. As does the drivel that I offer as 'wisdom'. Har.