Flying Finn

I wholeheartly agree what Jack, m21sniper and Andy just posted, and I hope Erik agrees also.

ZBlue996Kam

Quote TheOtherEric
[ZBlue- we're not discussing this out of some childish morbid curiosity. We're discussing this so that we can learn from this tragedy and use that knowledge to make the track a safer place so that it doesn't happen again. It's very healthy and important that we take lessons from these events.]

TheOtherEric:

Yes, we can discuss track safty issues using this incident as an example but only when we have all the facts.

carreracup21

I agree, and yes we need the facts first. Most importantly, what the Medical examiner determines was the cause of death. It's easy to forget the risks of what we are doing out there, especially with the strong sense of denial we all have. For the most part, we go out to these events with no serious thoughts of ever being injured or killed. We enjoy the moments and report back to our regular lives on Monday morning. It's a momentary escape to another world, but sometimes it becomes very real and permanent. My sincere condolences to Eric's family.

RedlineMan

Hey All;

ZBlue raises a very good point, and is being missinterpreted. There are plenty of forces that look for just such incidents to shut down pastimes like the one we cherish. I have known in the back of my mind for years that many here were living in a fool's paradise; not acknowledging the risk, or the likelihood of all of us losing our beloved track events. Just be careful in your speculation. The walls do indeed have ears at times.

Is DE safe? This is the first PCA fataility ever, as far as I am aware. That makes it pretty safe. To some extent we have been collectively lucky. We also have been collectively good at what we do, and yet we MUST strive to do better at all times.

As someone who builds cars for clients and friends, who's been driving for 15 years, who instructs avidly, who mentors other instructors, I am resoundingly taken aback by this. I am already using a HANS with a halo seat. I feel very safe with it. I encourage you all to seek good councel and get an H&N system. I am going for side nets next, in earnest. The latest Scroth belts are coming soon. Fomenting plans for a fire system. Maybe a suit. Think my friends, think. NOTHING is stupid if it is safer.

I can't add anything to the expressions of sorrow so elloquently offered by my fellow Listers. May we be brought closer, be made wiser, and never forget the lessons that have been offered us. Let's all live to drive - and drive well - another day.

RIP.

ceboyd

Is this seriously the 1st ever PCA event to have this fatality??? WOW! I didn't realize that. I know there was that other incident resulting in death but it was a Viper Club (or was it Ferrari?) run event and NOT PCA (on the west coast). It just makes this seem like a more common occurance since it was just a month or 2 ago that this happened in that Carrera GT.

Bull

While this forum obviously offers an opportunity for catharsis for many, until we know the cause of death we are just speculating. This is not the first death ever at a PCA DE event, whatever difference that makes.

I sincerely hope that the family and friends of this man are finding some peace and solitude in which to do their grieving.

Living is a risky undertaking.

ceboyd

agreed....

Jack667

I always thought that the Lime Rock fatality of 5 (?) years ago was PCA. I could certainly be mistaken. Also, there was a fatality at Pocono a couple of years ago. The driver was previously very active in PCA but switched to Corvettes. I think that was a Corvette club event, but I'm not sure. I think that alot of these events (I've driven with several different groups) are run in a similar format, so I would not be so quick to distinguish between PCA and non-PCA.

Larry Herman

The fatality at Lime Rock in the late 90's was at a Club Race, and the one at Pocono was a physical problem (stroke, aneurism, heat attack or something like that) while the driver was on track, IIRC.

Martin S.

LOCAL NEWS
August 1, 2005

WATKINS GLEN
Man was killed during club visit The man killed Saturday in a crash at Watkins Glen International racetrack was there with a Porsche club, a track spokeswoman said Sunday.

Eiron Jones, the senior manager of public relations for Watkins Glen International, said Bengt-Erik Wiholm, 61, of Blue Bell, Pa., a Philadelphia suburb, was part of the Riesentotor Region of the Porsche Club of America, which rented the track for the day.

Wiholm was killed shortly before 4:30 p.m. Saturday when he lost control of his vehicle and crashed into guide rails as he headed into "The Boot" at Turn 6.

He was transported to Schuyler Hospital in Montour Falls, where he was pronounced dead on arrival.

The Schuyler County Sheriff's Department said Sunday the investigation is continuing and provided no additional information about the crash.

Jones said there were multiple cars on the track when the crash occurred, but no other vehicles were involved and Wiholm was alone in his vehicle.

Jones said this was the first club driver death she was aware of at the racetrack. Automobile clubs frequently rent the track, she said.

"The clubs come up quite a bit," Jones said. "From May to late October, we have track activities almost every day, and the majority of those days are clubs."

The Riesentotor Region of the Porsche Club of America has members in nine counties in southeastern Pennsylvania, according its Web site at www.rtr-pca.org.

Food Angel

Pocono fatality (in 1998, I believe) was also at a club race, and was a heart attack. The driver had pulled to a stop in the pits and pulled down his window net, but did not apparently signal in any other fashion that there was an issue.

centerpunch

Yes, but it was also a single car crash, and could have just as easily happened at a DE.

I've done DE on and off since 1980, and I do think some of the perspectives here are wrong. Specifically, DE is not "safe."

DE is dangerous.

Pretending it is safe may make new (and not so new) drivers less respectful of the inherent dangers. There is a great article on general aviation (flying small planes such as Cessnas, etc.) where the most successful instructor in the country (who markets flying lessons on DVD, etc.) makes the same point about flying. Here's a paraphrase from his article, with DE substituted:

"By denying the fact that track events are a risky activity-even if performed by intelligent, capable, achieving people-we hamper our ability to manage or reduce the risks we face every time we pull onto the track."

See the whole article at http://www.kingschools.com/news/BigLie.htm
.

Phokaioglaukos

Private aircraft pilots, and aviators in general, seem to be on the forefront of examining in excruciating detail the reasons for incidents and in drawing lessons from them. I hope some useful information develops from Erik's incident.

carreracup21

I'm a pilot and take the journal "Aviation Safety" which pours over all NTSB reports in detail. Very sobering, but necessary to say the least. The NTSB does a fantastic job of analyzing all aviation accidents where there is substantial damage, injury, or fatality, in the hopes of saving lives in the future. They tend to be very blunt and honest reports on the facts. Not to draw any conclusions or comparisons to the current topic, the vast majority of aviation incidents usually turn out to be the result of "human factors" or pilot error. Pilot over-confidence, and lack of recurrent training are often cited as associated causitive factors in many aviation incidents. Student pilots also bear a disproportionate number of incidents.

Larry Herman

I don't know how you could ever eliminate driver error from driving on race tracks. It happens to all experience levels of drivers. Sometimes it is skill that prevents an incedent. Sometimes it is just good luck. On one lap I put all 4 wheels on the turtles coming out of turn 10 this past weekend. It would have been a very ugly off at 110 mph straight at the tire wall. I kept the car under control, on the very edge of the track and continued on my way, virtually unnoticed. I have replayed the incedent many times in my head over the last 48 hours.

We are only talking about being 2 or 3 feet wider than my normal line here. I still am not sure how it happened. Did I carry a little more speed into the turn, or did the car just push away from the apex a little because of something on the track? Regardless, I went a little wide, and it took my experience and calm to make this a non-incedent. How would someone with less track time have handled it? Is it the same 2 or 3 feet that caused Erik's crash?

Should we limit novices to lesser hp cars? That would not have helped Erik. His Boxster is considered a moderate car. Should he have had proper safety equipment? He had 5 point belts that presumably held him in the car. I do not see how we can eliminate all risk in what can be a dangerous hobby.