TD in DC

Last night, my wife was telling me how much my track addiction worries her. For the first time, I realized how scared she is that I will be killed or seriously injured. This morning, I log on to read that Ben in LJ died yesterday on the track. RIP The driver's and passenger's spaces in the wrecked CGT appear to be intact, which leads me to wonder whether the Gs caused the problem.

As many of you know, I just bought a NA 944. I know that I will not be reaching anything close to the speeds the CGT purportedly reached before the wreck. Nonetheless, I am buying a new seat (Kirkey) and 6-point harness for my new car (which has a full cage) since it only has one seat now and I will be attending DEs. Since I am buying new harnesses anyway, should I consider a HANS device with HANS specific harnesses, or is that just overkill for a NA 944? Also, any tips on specific brands and 5 point vs. 6 point? I hope to start racing in the 944cup series as soon as I am good enough, so I am trying to buy things that I can use for that purpose.

Thanks,

TD

ColorChange

I own an Isaac. Highly recommended, Hans or Isaac.

yetis

TD; I had the exact same conversation with my soon to be wife last night. I would also like to hear some opinions on this.

924RACR

6 point, there is no question... unless you can get a 7-point. 5-point just isn't good enough.

A H+N restraint, be it HANS or ISAAC, is not overkill. Neither is a fire system, or a fire suit, etc., IMO. I may be going out on a limb here (no surprise, since I work on auto safety systems), but I personally feel that you can't have too much safety gear. It is possible, however, to have too little.

(Oh, yeah, I have an ISAAC, FWIW, and have "used" it - I'm an official member of the ISAAC Crash Test Dummy Club)

Hulbertr

I did not know the parties involved in the incident, may they RIP and my condolences to the famlies.

Buy a HANS device. This goes for everyone. If you DE, Race, or whatever do not take the chance. It costs less than a set of tires and is a niave oversight to think it cannot happen to you. Invest in a 5 or 6 point harness and update it on a regular basis (every two years). If you install a cage, do it right and go all the way...

RJay

I bought a Hans and frankly, I think its foolish if you're in a car with harnesses not to own some sort of H&N device. I've yet to buy a suit, so I might look a little stupid, but I suspect that's preferable to risking spending the rest of my days in a wheelchair or worse. Its pretty clear that at speeds 100MPH slower than was reported in the CGT accident, you can wind up severely injured or six feet under as the result of BSF.

The CGT accident, however, bring to mind another issue regarding safety. from the reports I've read, there seems to be some conflicting information, but if true, it is extremely disturbing that there was no pit out flagger which clearly contributed significantly to the incident. Makes one think that its important to consider very carefully who you run with. Its rather ironic however, that a Hans could in circumstances similar to this one actually contribute to this kind of incident in that it is very difficult when blending to look over ones shoulder to see if anyones coming.

TD in DC

Actually, this has been one of my concerns, along with the fact that I imagine it could make entry/exit to the car more difficult. Is this true?

Larry Herman

Todd, I just received three R3 H&N devices yesterday; for me and my 2 boys. I bought the R3 because as an instructor, I can use it from car to car. I don't really think that the debate over which one is slightly better is as critical as the fact that you should have a H&N device over nothing at all. Even at a DE with a "lowly" 944. Most people are fixated on the death aspect, but they forget that it is much easier and more likely to sustain a permanent debilitating neck injury.

Juan Lopez

Before you spend money in performance upgrades, get your safety stuff in order. If you fear being looked at funny by others (if you show up with one), think how you could look if you don't use one.

I own a HANS and have every other possible safety upgrade done to my car.

Tragic news on Ben's accident. Lets all be safe and pray for those less fortunate.

TD in DC

Larry,

Thanks. I have been following the debates regarding the types of neck restraint systems, and understand that there are some strongly held views on the comparative merits of the various systems. I understand your choice.

Juan and everyone,

I agree about the importance of safety. Since I am a newbie, I may not even be aware of the "full" list of safety upgrades that are available.

Anyone care to provide a list of safety items I should consider (brand/type comments are also appreciated)?

Thanks,

TD

Sanjeevan

I was thinking of the same thing last night, I was too upset to post anything here....I am considering the recently released club sport version of Isaac....I also was worried about the ease of exit with isaac, which supposedly is developing a quick release mechanism. But, my understanding is that you can still look sideways in normal tension with these devices, I may even look into one of those large rear view mirror attachements (In my last DE., as I was passing a car my instructor said the other driver with his hands out to the left was drifting to the right and touched the yellow curbing on the left, and he could have swereved in to me, with the wider mirror I will be able to see such things) I will be placing an order for an isaac this wknd., after talking to the developer.
T.D. FWIW, there is a lengthy, informative discussion on H&N restraint in this forum with the developer of Isaac (correct me if I am wrong) had answered several questions, I read every word of it a couple of months ago..you may want to do the same.
Jeeva
p.s: Don't tell any of your wife's of Ben's tragedy...it's going to be impossible for them to accept it...all of us should be very careful out there,and take this very seriously. I am glad PCA and BMW club (the clubs I've done DE's with) taking alll those extra safety precautions...thank you guys.

924RACR

I'll reiterate again the need for a center net in a closed/sedan type of car, to support and protect the driver in lateral impacts on the passenger side. This is to protect against spinal injuries. Having a window net serves the same purpose on the driver's side, and while de rigeur for racecars it's worthwhile for us to remember that DE cars don't always have them, but run with windows down and so are just as much in need.

Of course for a center net you will likely need a cage in order to have the structure to attach it to. Window nets can be attached to the door if need be. Beats popping out the window in a rollover or side-impact!

These are both very inexpensive, as compared to H+N devices, like $40-80 each, but a huge step forward in safety - great cost-benefit.

Yes, any H+N is better than none, no question. ISAAC recently came out with the LINK, which is much cheaper but nearly as good. www.isaac-direct.com

mamoroso

My exact same thoughts. So now I am thinking of buying a Brey Krause Harness Truss and a HANS device to improve safety at the track.

My car is a daily driver and I am not sure I am ready to put a roll cage in it. Also this would prevent the use of the 2 rear seats for grocery runs with the kids.

I know it would be better to have a cage but I was wondering if there are any counterindications in just going with the harness truss, a 6 point harness and a Hans/Isaac device.
The last thing I want is to make things more dangerous just because of lack of experience or well thought approach.

I would love for you experienced guys to chime in and help me with my decision.

Thanks in advance

Sanjeevan

Yes, in case of a roll over and a roof collapse, your head will not get out of the way...so, I went with a Das roll bar. Plenty of good debates in the archives...being a street/track car, there'll always be compromises...the only compromise with my set up is the possibility of head trauma on the roll bar without a helmet, but for me (5'10"), the bar is atleast a foot away, so I chose this option.
Jeevaa

TD in DC

Forgive me for my ignorance, but how could the nets help prevent spinal injuries if you are buckled in firmly to a racing seat with a 6 or 7 point harness? I always assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that the window net was just to keep your arm from flying out the window if you rolled.

I will be ordering an H&N device later today once I decide which one I want to order,