Adam Richman

Mark, at that weight I would most certainly shave the tires (actually would at any weight ..). Most folks will shave from 4/32nds (we went 3/32nds on a set however) and with good results. The issue for the full treads is that if you drive the car aggressively, they will chunk (we see minor chunking on or intermediates - 6.32nds - from a drying track - that's 1000 lbs. less than you on a damp track but front heavy/front drive so maybe a wash). You will get more/longer life from a shaved Toyo than you will from full tread and you will get better performance from a shaved Toyo than you will from full tread. A friend of mine that used to instruct for NASA and THSCC (they run RRR and CMP regularly during the year) was getting next to no life out of his full tread Toyos (E30 BMW 325i) and said last I spoke w/ him he would not do the full tread again. I don't know the surface of the Rock but I'll put up a bet that RRR will destroy a full tread Toyo significantly faster than a shaved one. If you want to play it safe, have them shaved to 5 or 6/32nds and cut the gap - I just do not see a 8/32nds (full tread) lasting nearly as long as a 3-4/32nds if you drive hard on them.

Also, I have never heard anyone credible saying the RA1s need to be heat cycled before use. I have heard from App Tire, Vilven and various sources it doesn't require a heat cycle (unlike most all other R-compound tires). We started several races on sticker shaved Toyos and they wore just fine (I want to say we ran a 19 race season on 8 tires - 4 races at RRR that year and half those races were 1.5 hour or more).

MarkPcar

I posed a similar question about heat cycling the RA1 on the Spec Miata message board last year. This is the reposne I got from a guy that works at the Tire Rack:


Mark -

Most R-compound tires benefit from heat cycling first, and you can't HURT a tire by doing it. The first time a competition tire is used is the most important. During that run, its tread compound is stretched, some of the weaker bonds between the rubber molecules will be broken (which generates some of the heat). If the tires are initially run too hard or too long, some of the stronger bonds will also be broken which will reduces the tire's grip and wear qualities. Running new tires through an easy heat cycle first, and allowing them to relax allows the rubber bonds to relink in a more uniform manner than they were originally manufactured. It actually makes them more consistent in strength and more resistant to loosing their strength the next time they are used. An important heat cycling step is that after being brought up to temperature, the tires require a minimum of 24 to 48 hours to relax and reform the bonds between their rubber molecules.

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Representing The Tire Rack
877-522-8473 ext 643
damon@tirerack.com






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MarkP
posted 07-13-2004 09:50 AM

Thanks!

Damon, can a first heat cycle be achieved while driving on the street? Say 5 miles of rural twisty roads at 40 mph?

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Redmond, WA

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damon@tirerack.com
Moderator

Yep. Just make sure to let the tire cure the full 24-48 hours before driving on it again after warming it.

--------------------
Representing The Tire Rack
877-522-8473 ext 643
damon@tirerack.com

Jarez Mifkin

Mark, not to dog you or anything, but Tire Rack doesn't sell Toyo's (nor do they plan to in the future according to one of their sales people) So I wouldn't listen to them to much when it comes to Toyo's.

RedlineMan

Hey all;

Heat cycling tires is a proven technique for increasing their longevity and consistency, and it is not a point you can argue. I think it may effect Toyos less because they are not a full bore soft compound race tire, but more of a compromise tire with a tougher compound that breaks down less and so does not reform as much either.

Unless you drive really hard, particlularly on a poor suspension setup, you will not need to shave them. People who race generally do shave because they are pretty squirmy at full tread, and they also will overheat under the cap ply under severe racing conditions. For a first time R tire DE-er, I think you'll be fine at full tread.

Instead of shaving them, do them a favor and get some negative camber in your alignment settings before you use them. If you have none, this will kill them faster than shaving or not shaving.

a4944

Thanks all. Went with shaved at 5/32, it was only a few dollars more per tire at App Tire. I'm running -2.2 neg camber so should be OK there. Looking forward to running them in February at VIR.

Mark

forklift

Mark,

Are you going to VIR w/ NASA? If so look for me in the black RSA.

I just went to shaved toyo's from full treads. My full treads lasted forever. They would still be on the car if it wasn't for all of the nails lying around Summit Point.

Jim

a4944

No, going with THSCC for VIR full. I will be running some NASA events this year though. Did the VIR North one last year and had a great time with the passing rules.

Mark

Adam Richman

Mark, are you doing the Time Trial as well? That THSCC event should be fun. From my recollection, the passing rules for THSCC were the same (passing anywhere w/ a point by for solo and instructor groups) as w/ NASA. That might have changed in the last year however.

a4944

Yes on the Time Trial. I run advanced group with THSCC and they only let you pass on the certain straights with a point by. I've been running with them for a couple of years now (advanced for a year). It may be different for the instructor group. I'm doing time trial just for fun. I'm in the SPO class because of the Autothority Stage II chip which increases boost. Radicals are in the SPO class. I'm not really competitive with many of the cars which run in that class. The new rubber should help some though.

Mark

billlynes

I have run full tread Toyo's at Roebling on a 3000+ lb. 911.

Never had a problem with chunking. They are rather squirmy to begin with.

930man

are RA1s substantially better than Kumo V700s vir eats my front drivers side in 8 days at VIR all the rest hold up ok. sounds like i should try the RA1s

RJay

Yes! Although I must admit I'm interesting in seeing what the new 710s will be like. Initial reports have been positive with Porsche sizes coming this april.

930man

cool thanks rjay i bought alot of tires last year with the 944 turbo s .. would like to try something different this year

RJay

Let me qualify my statement...for me (and the guys who recommended I try them) they last far longer and I don't believe once they been run a few times that they give up much grip to the Kuhmo on track, in fact I think they are more consistent where the Kuhmos have a tendency to go away at times. At an AX however, I'd prefer the Kuhmos as they seem to have more stick in that situation. I bought quite a few tires last year myself, that why I went to the Toyos toward the end of the season. With 6 track days and 2 AXes on them, they are just getting broken in.

Adam Richman

SPO ouch! I guess you can't mess w/ the chips in Street Prepared?? I missed last years' Kershaw event, otherwise if you have been to those, I think I have been to the previous two years (never done the VIR South events however) - a couple of us were there (CMP) in ITA CRXs two years ago and think I had my 944S there the year previously. I really enjoy those folks a great deal. You might be right on the student passing rules now, I remember we were allowed to pass anywhere in the instructor groups in the past (this may have changed now too?) and they had basically split the instructors into Instructor group and Advanced - that might have been a one time only on the passing rules for the class??

If I get up there, I'll try stop by and say hello. Otherwise, don't worry too much about the Radical, just try put in some good laps (and beat the M3s!).

Take care and have fun!