The value of track day tech line
09-28-2004, 09:06 AM
#31
So does the classroom session to teach tech inspection. I'm glad to have an experienced pair of eyes to look at my car, but i'd like to know more about it myself (I've learned stuff at DE's, but not formally). This would also probabaly expand the potential numbers of tech inspectors at AM yechs.
(My wrench always puts the car on lift and takes it seriously - I'm glad of it).
(FWIW - lower run group guy)
(My wrench always puts the car on lift and takes it seriously - I'm glad of it).
(FWIW - lower run group guy)
09-28-2004, 09:02 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Z-man
I understand your point, BUT: the fact that a different set of eyes is looking at your car is helpful. While you may focus on checking to make sure the nuts and bolts of the engine are all in place, the folks on the tech line would be looking at other just as important stuff on your car. For example: you're used to the way your wheels look - over time the spokes on them sort of blend into the background. But a new set of eyes may catch that hairline crack that you may not see, no matter how detail oriented you are.
While it may take an expert to determine that everything is 100%, it doesn't take an expert to spot something that's off, just someone who pays attention to details.
-Z-man.
While it may take an expert to determine that everything is 100%, it doesn't take an expert to spot something that's off, just someone who pays attention to details.
-Z-man.
09-29-2004, 11:46 AM
#33
Race Director
Getting back to the post that started this:
Juipeman: you have a lot of numbers and ratios listed. How/where did you come up with these? (IIRC, 85% of all stats quoted on the 'net are made up on the spot. 
)
Regarding the tire pressure at 0 psi: that is very hard to catch - I've been told that with slicks and R-compounds, their stiffer sidewalls make it difficult to visually spot low air pressure.
Now, back to the numbers. In 2003, NNJR did a two day event at Jefferson Circuit / Summit Point. We ran the Jefferson Circuit counter-clockwise the first day, and Summit Point the second day. We had about 60-70 cars for that event. In the morning tech of the second day, at least 1/3 of the cars had loose lug nuts on the right side of the car! That's about 15 cars! We mentioned this at the driver's meeting and at the insturctor's meeting, and later that day, several of the instructors came to us and said their lug nuts were also loose!
Also: at our pre-event tech's, we typically fail 2-3 cars per tech. That's about 30 cars a year that fail the pre-event tech. With 10 events and ~ 150 cars per event, that's 30 cars out of 1500 that are caught before a possible mechanical failure out on the track. That's not an earth shattering ratio, but if you're one of those cars, the percentages don't matter to you much! That fact that the pre-event tech may have saved your car from serious on-track damage does matter!
We check a lot more than what you mention, but sometimes it is difficult to categorize what we're looking for. Alot of that also depends on the car: an early 911 has more things we can visually inspect at the track than a Boxster does. Most of our tech crew aren't mechanics. (Heck, I'm a computer geek myself!
) What's important at tech is to have a watchful eye, a good understanding of Porsches, and an attention to details.
While instructors have the privilege to tech their own car, they still have the opportunity to bring their car through the tech line. Logistically, having all instructors go through tech in the morning isn't feasible: adding 30-40% more cars on the tech line would push our schedule way back. But I don't think it would hurt for an instructor to take his car through the track-side morning tech once or twice a season.
Ultimately, it is the driver's responsibility to ensure their car is safe for the track. I don't think our club's tech program lulls folks into a false sense of security, but it serves as an extra check to make sure some of the major aspects of the car are up to the task of high speed performance driving.
Sorry for the long thread - I'll get off my soapbox now...
-Zoltan.
Originally Posted by DrJupeman
...I ask for the details as I believe the morning-of tech serves as a 1 in 1000 safety net as best. I know of a car that went through the tech line last weekend with 0 PSI pressure in one tire (yes, zero) and the tech line passed him...
Here are the items tech lines typically do check (Zman, tell me what I'm missing):
Battery secure...
Throttle response...
Brake lights - good but rarely fails (1 in 1000 again)
Oil cap secure - good but rarely fails (1 in 1000 again)
Torque Wheels - very good and fails occassionally (1 in 100?). Of course there is no guarantee that the driver won't go change his wheels and forget to torque them later.
Adequate coolant on H20 cars - good but rarely fails
General hose condition - good but rarely helps identify that oil line that is just about to break
An important function of the tech line in our region is to hand out run group stickers and schedules...
I am not proposing any changes to the PCA system. I think catching a 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000 case adds value. As stated, I also think the pre-event tech is very important. I am simply challenging Zman that the morning-of line is going to help prevent instructor group mechanical issues.
Here are the items tech lines typically do check (Zman, tell me what I'm missing):
Battery secure...
Throttle response...
Brake lights - good but rarely fails (1 in 1000 again)
Oil cap secure - good but rarely fails (1 in 1000 again)
Torque Wheels - very good and fails occassionally (1 in 100?). Of course there is no guarantee that the driver won't go change his wheels and forget to torque them later.
Adequate coolant on H20 cars - good but rarely fails
General hose condition - good but rarely helps identify that oil line that is just about to break
An important function of the tech line in our region is to hand out run group stickers and schedules...
I am not proposing any changes to the PCA system. I think catching a 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000 case adds value. As stated, I also think the pre-event tech is very important. I am simply challenging Zman that the morning-of line is going to help prevent instructor group mechanical issues.
) Regarding the tire pressure at 0 psi: that is very hard to catch - I've been told that with slicks and R-compounds, their stiffer sidewalls make it difficult to visually spot low air pressure.
Now, back to the numbers. In 2003, NNJR did a two day event at Jefferson Circuit / Summit Point. We ran the Jefferson Circuit counter-clockwise the first day, and Summit Point the second day. We had about 60-70 cars for that event. In the morning tech of the second day, at least 1/3 of the cars had loose lug nuts on the right side of the car! That's about 15 cars! We mentioned this at the driver's meeting and at the insturctor's meeting, and later that day, several of the instructors came to us and said their lug nuts were also loose!
Also: at our pre-event tech's, we typically fail 2-3 cars per tech. That's about 30 cars a year that fail the pre-event tech. With 10 events and ~ 150 cars per event, that's 30 cars out of 1500 that are caught before a possible mechanical failure out on the track. That's not an earth shattering ratio, but if you're one of those cars, the percentages don't matter to you much! That fact that the pre-event tech may have saved your car from serious on-track damage does matter!
We check a lot more than what you mention, but sometimes it is difficult to categorize what we're looking for. Alot of that also depends on the car: an early 911 has more things we can visually inspect at the track than a Boxster does. Most of our tech crew aren't mechanics. (Heck, I'm a computer geek myself!
) What's important at tech is to have a watchful eye, a good understanding of Porsches, and an attention to details. While instructors have the privilege to tech their own car, they still have the opportunity to bring their car through the tech line. Logistically, having all instructors go through tech in the morning isn't feasible: adding 30-40% more cars on the tech line would push our schedule way back. But I don't think it would hurt for an instructor to take his car through the track-side morning tech once or twice a season.
Ultimately, it is the driver's responsibility to ensure their car is safe for the track. I don't think our club's tech program lulls folks into a false sense of security, but it serves as an extra check to make sure some of the major aspects of the car are up to the task of high speed performance driving.
Sorry for the long thread - I'll get off my soapbox now...
-Zoltan.
09-29-2004, 11:54 AM
#34
Race Director
Originally Posted by DrJupeman
I agree with your statement... if people actually looked that closely. I don't think the pre-tech guys do. I'll suppose you'll prove me wrong by citing an example of a morning-of tech finding a hairline crack. Is so, give that techie a star!
Granted, we are only human, and can't spot everything wrong with a car, but the tech crew does their best to determine the overall condition of each and every car that goes through tech.
What makes you say that the tech crew doesn't look at the cars that closely?
-Z.
09-29-2004, 12:03 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Z-man
Getting back to the post that started this:
Juipeman: you have a lot of numbers and ratios listed. How/where did you come up with these? (IIRC, 85% of all stats quoted on the 'net are made up on the spot. )
Regarding the tire pressure at 0 psi: that is very hard to catch - I've been told that with slicks and R-compounds, their stiffer sidewalls make it difficult to visually spot low air pressure.
Now, back to the numbers. In 2003, NNJR did a two day event at Jefferson Circuit / Summit Point. We ran the Jefferson Circuit counter-clockwise the first day, and Summit Point the second day. We had about 60-70 cars for that event. In the morning tech of the second day, at least 1/3 of the cars had loose lug nuts on the right side of the car! That's about 15 cars! We mentioned this at the driver's meeting and at the insturctor's meeting, and later that day, several of the instructors came to us and said their lug nuts were also loose!
Also: at our pre-event tech's, we typically fail 2-3 cars per tech. That's about 30 cars a year that fail the pre-event tech. With 10 events and ~ 150 cars per event, that's 30 cars out of 1500 that are caught before a possible mechanical failure out on the track. That's not an earth shattering ratio, but if you're one of those cars, the percentages don't matter to you much! That fact that the pre-event tech may have saved your car from serious on-track damage does matter!
We check a lot more than what you mention, but sometimes it is difficult to categorize what we're looking for. Alot of that also depends on the car: an early 911 has more things we can visually inspect at the track than a Boxster does. Most of our tech crew aren't mechanics. (Heck, I'm a computer geek myself! ) What's important at tech is to have a watchful eye, a good understanding of Porsches, and an attention to details.
While instructors have the privilege to tech their own car, they still have the opportunity to bring their car through the tech line. Logistically, having all instructors go through tech in the morning isn't feasible: adding 30-40% more cars on the tech line would push our schedule way back. But I don't think it would hurt for an instructor to take his car through the track-side morning tech once or twice a season.
Ultimately, it is the driver's responsibility to ensure their car is safe for the track. I don't think our club's tech program lulls folks into a false sense of security, but it serves as an extra check to make sure some of the major aspects of the car are up to the task of high speed performance driving.
Sorry for the long thread - I'll get off my soapbox now...
-Zoltan.
Juipeman: you have a lot of numbers and ratios listed. How/where did you come up with these? (IIRC, 85% of all stats quoted on the 'net are made up on the spot.
) Regarding the tire pressure at 0 psi: that is very hard to catch - I've been told that with slicks and R-compounds, their stiffer sidewalls make it difficult to visually spot low air pressure.
Now, back to the numbers. In 2003, NNJR did a two day event at Jefferson Circuit / Summit Point. We ran the Jefferson Circuit counter-clockwise the first day, and Summit Point the second day. We had about 60-70 cars for that event. In the morning tech of the second day, at least 1/3 of the cars had loose lug nuts on the right side of the car! That's about 15 cars! We mentioned this at the driver's meeting and at the insturctor's meeting, and later that day, several of the instructors came to us and said their lug nuts were also loose!
Also: at our pre-event tech's, we typically fail 2-3 cars per tech. That's about 30 cars a year that fail the pre-event tech. With 10 events and ~ 150 cars per event, that's 30 cars out of 1500 that are caught before a possible mechanical failure out on the track. That's not an earth shattering ratio, but if you're one of those cars, the percentages don't matter to you much! That fact that the pre-event tech may have saved your car from serious on-track damage does matter!
We check a lot more than what you mention, but sometimes it is difficult to categorize what we're looking for. Alot of that also depends on the car: an early 911 has more things we can visually inspect at the track than a Boxster does. Most of our tech crew aren't mechanics. (Heck, I'm a computer geek myself!
) What's important at tech is to have a watchful eye, a good understanding of Porsches, and an attention to details. While instructors have the privilege to tech their own car, they still have the opportunity to bring their car through the tech line. Logistically, having all instructors go through tech in the morning isn't feasible: adding 30-40% more cars on the tech line would push our schedule way back. But I don't think it would hurt for an instructor to take his car through the track-side morning tech once or twice a season.
Ultimately, it is the driver's responsibility to ensure their car is safe for the track. I don't think our club's tech program lulls folks into a false sense of security, but it serves as an extra check to make sure some of the major aspects of the car are up to the task of high speed performance driving.
Sorry for the long thread - I'll get off my soapbox now...
-Zoltan.
I think pre-event tech is great, keep up the good mechanical work but I'll talk to you, perhaps Friday night, on how we need to beef up the safety inspection aspect of that tech.
It is feasible to inspect instructors cars at the morning-of tech. We used to do it for years. I do speak from experience here as I was a tech line worker (in addition to tower and then instructor responsibilities) for 5 or 6 years. We dumped instructors going through tech to save time with the awareness that the basic things checked in tech the instructors were capable and responsible enough to check for themselves.
Since you went back to my original post you'll see I state that I believe morning-of tech and pre-event tech are both great, don't get rid of them. I'm still waiting to hear which instructor group mechanical incidents you think would have been prevented by morning-of tech. (Remind me if you already posted the answer as I'm at work and don't want to scroll through the thread right now...)
09-29-2004, 12:13 PM
#36
Race Director
Originally Posted by DrJupeman
I think pre-event tech is great, keep up the good mechanical work but I'll talk to you, perhaps Friday night, on how we need to beef up the safety inspection aspect of that tech.
Originally Posted by Jupeman
It is feasible to inspect instructors cars at the morning-of tech. We used to do it for years. I do speak from experience here as I was a tech line worker (in addition to tower and then instructor responsibilities) for 5 or 6 years. We dumped instructors going through tech to save time with the awareness that the basic things checked in tech the instructors were capable and responsible enough to check for themselves.
Originally Posted by Jupeman
Since you went back to my original post you'll see I state that I believe morning-of tech and pre-event tech are both great, don't get rid of them. I'm still waiting to hear which instructor group mechanical incidents you think would have been prevented by morning-of tech. (Remind me if you already posted the answer as I'm at work and don't want to scroll through the thread right now...)
I look forward to your suggestions on Friday,
-Z.
Last edited by Z-man; 09-29-2004 at 12:31 PM.
09-29-2004, 12:30 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Z-man
We do spend a fair amount of time looking each car over at the pre-event techs. We do look at the cars THAT closely. A typical pre-event check of a car will last around 20-25 minutes (topside and on the lift checks). Most of the crew, while not mechanics by trade, have a good amount of experience looking at, and wrenching on Porsches. Every year we offer a "tech inspector's workshop" for folks who are interested in getting involved with the tech program. These 'newbies' are then partnered with veteran 'techies' throughout the season for more hands-on instruction. These guys do have a good idea of what to be looking for.
Granted, we are only human, and can't spot everything wrong with a car, but the tech crew does their best to determine the overall condition of each and every car that goes through tech.
What makes you say that the tech crew doesn't look at the cars that closely?
-Z.
Granted, we are only human, and can't spot everything wrong with a car, but the tech crew does their best to determine the overall condition of each and every car that goes through tech.
What makes you say that the tech crew doesn't look at the cars that closely?
-Z.
09-29-2004, 12:48 PM
#38
I think the real value of track tech is preventative... its more like morning roll call to make sure the students know they are expected to show up prepared with their head screwed on and their cars prepared before they get to tech.
Tech should be judeged on how FEW non-compliances they find rather than how many. The most effective tech program would be one where no non-compliances are found... that meant the message went out and was understood.
If there were no morning tech how many cars would go out with loose lugnuts, cracked windshields, low brake fluid, loose batteries, junk in the trunk, CDs and coffee cups rolling around the floor... I'd bet quite a few.
Tech should be judeged on how FEW non-compliances they find rather than how many. The most effective tech program would be one where no non-compliances are found... that meant the message went out and was understood.
If there were no morning tech how many cars would go out with loose lugnuts, cracked windshields, low brake fluid, loose batteries, junk in the trunk, CDs and coffee cups rolling around the floor... I'd bet quite a few.
09-29-2004, 12:52 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by JCP911S
I think the real value of track tech is preventative... its more like morning roll call to make sure the students know they are expected to show up prepared with their head screwed on and their cars prepared before they get to tech.
Tech should be judeged on how FEW non-compliances they find rather than how many. The most effective tech program would be one where no non-compliances are found... that meant the message went out and was understood.
If there were no morning tech how many cars would go out with loose lugnuts, cracked windshields, low brake fluid, loose batteries, junk in the trunk, CDs and coffee cups rolling around the floor... I'd bet quite a few.
Tech should be judeged on how FEW non-compliances they find rather than how many. The most effective tech program would be one where no non-compliances are found... that meant the message went out and was understood.
If there were no morning tech how many cars would go out with loose lugnuts, cracked windshields, low brake fluid, loose batteries, junk in the trunk, CDs and coffee cups rolling around the floor... I'd bet quite a few.
Tracquest doesn't seem to experience the problems you note in the last paragraph and they don't have a morning tech.
Peachstate PCA uses a very cool night-before tech, which for cars driven back to the hotel at night doesn't necessarily mean you won't have coffee cups rolling around the next day...
09-29-2004, 01:24 PM
#40
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
FWIW - Having just come back from a two day DE I asked the tech line guys what they found. Only 9 cars of 126 had issues. Loose lug nuts (2), brake lights (1), low brake fluid (1), Overfilled brake fluid (3 cars with new pads installed for the event). Loose oil line (1), battery not secured (1).
I think the morning tech line has merit if only for torquing lug nuts since I am always surprised at how many are loose. The overfilled brake fuid reservoirs are something I hadn't thought about but if you replace pads after you've changed brake fluid it's common. Leaking brake fluid may not be a safety issue but I bet the owner appreicates not having that most corrosive of fluids leaking in his car.
We'll be looking at tech line "discoveries" if only because they indicate that the pre-event tech is not being taken too seriously by some participants. At last months event we did an audit of the tech sheets turned in and discovered that a disturbing number were missing (instructors!) and too many others appeared to be faked. That's the real issue we will be attacking. This season we have be spared "incidents" but we have had a lot of equipment failures causing delays in run groups while we clean up oil and coolant spills and/or tow in disabled vehicles.
I have my car teched by a very serious guy but it seems that not everyone feels the same way. The technician has found issues on my 2004 GT3, what does that say about a 20 year old 944T I wonder?
Regards,
I think the morning tech line has merit if only for torquing lug nuts since I am always surprised at how many are loose. The overfilled brake fuid reservoirs are something I hadn't thought about but if you replace pads after you've changed brake fluid it's common. Leaking brake fluid may not be a safety issue but I bet the owner appreicates not having that most corrosive of fluids leaking in his car.
We'll be looking at tech line "discoveries" if only because they indicate that the pre-event tech is not being taken too seriously by some participants. At last months event we did an audit of the tech sheets turned in and discovered that a disturbing number were missing (instructors!) and too many others appeared to be faked. That's the real issue we will be attacking. This season we have be spared "incidents" but we have had a lot of equipment failures causing delays in run groups while we clean up oil and coolant spills and/or tow in disabled vehicles.
I have my car teched by a very serious guy but it seems that not everyone feels the same way. The technician has found issues on my 2004 GT3, what does that say about a 20 year old 944T I wonder?
Regards,
09-29-2004, 01:27 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau
FWIW - Having just come back from a two day DE I asked the tech line guys what they found. Only 9 cars of 126 had issues. Loose lug nuts (2), brake lights (1), low brake fluid (1), Overfilled brake fluid (3 cars with new pads installed for the event). Loose oil line (1), battery not secured (1).
I think the morning tech line has merit if only for torquing lug nuts since I am always surprised at how many are loose. The overfilled brake fuid reservoirs are something I hadn't thought about but if you replace pads after you've changed brake fluid it's common. Leaking brake fluid may not be a safety issue but I bet the owner appreicates not having that most corrosive of fluids leaking in his car.
We'll be looking at tech line "discoveries" if only because they indicate that the pre-event tech is not being taken too seriously by some participants. At last months event we did an audit of the tech sheets turned in and discovered that a disturbing number were missing (instructors!) and too many others appeared to be faked. That's the real issue we will be attacking. This season we have be spared "incidents" but we have had a lot of equipment failures causing delays in run groups while we clean up oil and coolant spills and/or tow in disabled vehicles.
I have my car teched by a very serious guy but it seems that not everyone feels the same way. The technician has found issues on my 2004 GT3, what does that say about a 20 year old 944T I wonder?
Regards,
I think the morning tech line has merit if only for torquing lug nuts since I am always surprised at how many are loose. The overfilled brake fuid reservoirs are something I hadn't thought about but if you replace pads after you've changed brake fluid it's common. Leaking brake fluid may not be a safety issue but I bet the owner appreicates not having that most corrosive of fluids leaking in his car.
We'll be looking at tech line "discoveries" if only because they indicate that the pre-event tech is not being taken too seriously by some participants. At last months event we did an audit of the tech sheets turned in and discovered that a disturbing number were missing (instructors!) and too many others appeared to be faked. That's the real issue we will be attacking. This season we have be spared "incidents" but we have had a lot of equipment failures causing delays in run groups while we clean up oil and coolant spills and/or tow in disabled vehicles.
I have my car teched by a very serious guy but it seems that not everyone feels the same way. The technician has found issues on my 2004 GT3, what does that say about a 20 year old 944T I wonder?
Regards,
Zman, Bob's post regarding missing tech and fake tech forms is disturbing. I suspect NNJR has a similar problem. Perhaps you and I can discuss how to join forces and assess if this is a problem. It is obviously a tech issue but so many of the tech issues are also safety issues.
09-29-2004, 01:32 PM
#42
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I really don't understand all the loose lug nuts. I check mine very frequently and they never turn up loose. Is it possible that people are not using that silver stuff messy stuff (anti-sieze) and they are not hitting their torque specs. It is very important to torque to proper spec in the way the torque is specified - wet or dry. Two significantly different numbers.
On the other hand I am not discounting the value of morning tech, I am just suggesting that the buddy tech system would alleviate some of the work load on the volunteers who would like to play too. Many of the tech workers end up late to the instructor or driver's meetings.
On the other hand I am not discounting the value of morning tech, I am just suggesting that the buddy tech system would alleviate some of the work load on the volunteers who would like to play too. Many of the tech workers end up late to the instructor or driver's meetings.
09-29-2004, 02:37 PM
#43
Race Director
Originally Posted by DrJupeman
Great post, thanks.
Zman, Bob's post regarding missing tech and fake tech forms is disturbing. I suspect NNJR has a similar problem. Perhaps you and I can discuss how to join forces and assess if this is a problem. It is obviously a tech issue but so many of the tech issues are also safety issues.
Zman, Bob's post regarding missing tech and fake tech forms is disturbing. I suspect NNJR has a similar problem. Perhaps you and I can discuss how to join forces and assess if this is a problem. It is obviously a tech issue but so many of the tech issues are also safety issues.
I recently heard something quite alarming: a DE participant who is hoping to get into instructing told me at a pre-event tech: "Man, I can't wait to become an instructor: then I can self-tech and not have to worry about coming to these pre-event techs." At that point I mentioned to him that instructors MUST take their car to a pre-event tech, whether it is the sponsored tech, or to an approved shop. My point is that there are those instructors who regularly bend the rule on purpose, and there are those who simply don't know the procedure, no matter how clearly it is stated.
Originally Posted by Bob
We'll be looking at tech line "discoveries" if only because they indicate that the pre-event tech is not being taken too seriously by some participants. At last months event we did an audit of the tech sheets turned in and discovered that a disturbing number were missing (instructors!) and too many others appeared to be faked. That's the real issue we will be attacking. This season we have be spared "incidents" but we have had a lot of equipment failures causing delays in run groups while we clean up oil and coolant spills and/or tow in disabled vehicles.
Along those same lines: perhaps the most disturbing DE participant for me is someone who takes his car to a pre-event (or trackside tech) and when he gets the stamp of approval, he breathes a sigh of relief because what he knew was a problem on his car wasn't caught at tech! An example of this would be someone with CV joints that are starting to go who goes through tech and his happy he's driving slow and there aren't the typical noises coming from his axle. GRR! To all DE particiapants: If you know there may be something wrong with your car, don't go to tech hoping that it won't be discovered! FIX THE PROBLEM! You may not think it will effect your car, but if it does, it can be disasterous on the track!
[/rant mode]
Regards,
-Z.
09-29-2004, 03:52 PM
#44
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Z-Man - Good point about the person who is happy a known problem is not "caught" at tech. Morons abound it seems.
Doing the review of our DE season with roughly 2000 driver days, it looks like this was a banner year for breakdowns. This makes me suspicious of the pre-event tech inspections. I watched a very competent tech spend an hour poking and prodding my 2004 GT3 with about 6,000 miles on it. In spite of it being new he went over it as thoroughly as he would a 20 year old car. He used to build race cars, holds a pro racing license (still) and knows what kind of sh*t can happen on a track.
Like you I have seen faxed in Tech forms -- hmmmm. Mising tech forms "my dog ate it, I left it at home" etc. and instructors who feign innocence saying "but we self tech".
Our home track is expensive to rent. With flaggers, emeregency medical team, insurnace and track rental, a weekday event costs US$ 1,000 per hour! This event we had a guy dump a load of coolant out of a 951 on line over about 100 yards. It took 45 minutes to clean it up. Would a proper pre-tech have caught the loose hose? I haven't added up all the lost track time due to breakdowns and leaks but I bet it is over ten grand this season. That sucks and I aim to do better next season. Is this similar in NNJR?
Rgds,
Doing the review of our DE season with roughly 2000 driver days, it looks like this was a banner year for breakdowns. This makes me suspicious of the pre-event tech inspections. I watched a very competent tech spend an hour poking and prodding my 2004 GT3 with about 6,000 miles on it. In spite of it being new he went over it as thoroughly as he would a 20 year old car. He used to build race cars, holds a pro racing license (still) and knows what kind of sh*t can happen on a track.
Like you I have seen faxed in Tech forms -- hmmmm. Mising tech forms "my dog ate it, I left it at home" etc. and instructors who feign innocence saying "but we self tech".
Our home track is expensive to rent. With flaggers, emeregency medical team, insurnace and track rental, a weekday event costs US$ 1,000 per hour! This event we had a guy dump a load of coolant out of a 951 on line over about 100 yards. It took 45 minutes to clean it up. Would a proper pre-tech have caught the loose hose? I haven't added up all the lost track time due to breakdowns and leaks but I bet it is over ten grand this season. That sucks and I aim to do better next season. Is this similar in NNJR?
Rgds,
09-29-2004, 04:19 PM
#45
It all boils down to personal responsibility. Sure there are insurance issues and so on, but if a guy goes out in a car that he knows has a problem, he's an idiot... you can't be mommy to people.
Pre-tech can only provide a guideline of things that a respponsible person should check to reduce the probability of a mech failure on the track. For students, mandatory inspection at a recognized shop is a way to drive that point home.
Instructors should know all that by now. They are given certain levels of responsibility, and the vast majority of them take that very very seriously. A few are always going to push the limits, but for the most part, people know who they are... its a pretty small world.
I think the bigger problem is complacency. Alot of Instructors run many events and even races each year. The cars take a beating, the schedules are often tight.. with events on successive weekends, etc, and after years of driving, you can start taking things for granted.
Once and a while you need to stop and give yourself a wake-up call. But that is the responsibility of the individual.
Pre-tech can only provide a guideline of things that a respponsible person should check to reduce the probability of a mech failure on the track. For students, mandatory inspection at a recognized shop is a way to drive that point home.
Instructors should know all that by now. They are given certain levels of responsibility, and the vast majority of them take that very very seriously. A few are always going to push the limits, but for the most part, people know who they are... its a pretty small world.
I think the bigger problem is complacency. Alot of Instructors run many events and even races each year. The cars take a beating, the schedules are often tight.. with events on successive weekends, etc, and after years of driving, you can start taking things for granted.
Once and a while you need to stop and give yourself a wake-up call. But that is the responsibility of the individual.