The Decline of PCA Club Racing
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07-29-2024, 08:59 PM
#153
Instructor
OK, lets take cost out of the equation, if you're going to race a Porsche, you know it's going to be expensive: you don't buy a Porsche with a Honda budget. And yes, the economy is a factor, I'm not dismissing that (it's keeping me from doing more this year). But we can't do anything about it.
So, after that, I see the biggest need to get more drivers in PCA Club racing is a clear and consistent path from DE to CR in some form of Competition School. NASA has it, SCCA has it, BMWCCA has it. We need it. And we don't need to reinvent the wheel, just use what already works. Maybe it will also help with Peter's 7) too much contact because we might get better drivers?
I also think PCA needs a Time Trial program. I seem to remember that there ARE procedures for it in the PCR's or somewhere, (didn't the west coast run some, or still runs some?). I know a lot of people that want to COMPETE, but not W2W. A big weekend of Racing, TT, HPDE and throw in Comp school sessions on Friday would certainly fill the registrations. And some of those TTers may use it as a step into CR.
Too many classes - We have a handful of Spec classes, GTA/B/C/D, 911Cup that makes up 90% of the grid. Slot everyone else into a few power to weight classes.
Make winning a trophy a bigger deal/celebration. Sure, it's just a simple trophy (except the cup car guys get really cool trophies), but celebrate all the work, effort, expense and talent (luck?) that got you there.
On that front - maybe treat that REST of the grid the same as you treat the Cup car classes. We pay the same registration fee, how about not being treated as second class?
When I started racing, I thought racing was for 'much better and richer' guys than me. I had a chief instructor push me into racing back in 2006 and I've loved it. But without that push and hand holding, I may never have gotten there. A solid and clear path to racing, with mentors and all, could go a long way...
So, after that, I see the biggest need to get more drivers in PCA Club racing is a clear and consistent path from DE to CR in some form of Competition School. NASA has it, SCCA has it, BMWCCA has it. We need it. And we don't need to reinvent the wheel, just use what already works. Maybe it will also help with Peter's 7) too much contact because we might get better drivers?
I also think PCA needs a Time Trial program. I seem to remember that there ARE procedures for it in the PCR's or somewhere, (didn't the west coast run some, or still runs some?). I know a lot of people that want to COMPETE, but not W2W. A big weekend of Racing, TT, HPDE and throw in Comp school sessions on Friday would certainly fill the registrations. And some of those TTers may use it as a step into CR.
Too many classes - We have a handful of Spec classes, GTA/B/C/D, 911Cup that makes up 90% of the grid. Slot everyone else into a few power to weight classes.
Make winning a trophy a bigger deal/celebration. Sure, it's just a simple trophy (except the cup car guys get really cool trophies), but celebrate all the work, effort, expense and talent (luck?) that got you there.
On that front - maybe treat that REST of the grid the same as you treat the Cup car classes. We pay the same registration fee, how about not being treated as second class?
When I started racing, I thought racing was for 'much better and richer' guys than me. I had a chief instructor push me into racing back in 2006 and I've loved it. But without that push and hand holding, I may never have gotten there. A solid and clear path to racing, with mentors and all, could go a long way...
I'm not very familiar with the BMW comp school curriculum, but I assume it's race starts, passing exercises and basic race craft like the virtual POC racers clinic I joined as part of their sim program? I am honestly surprised that's not already offered within PCA, but that also seems like a last step before making the jump into racing. I see a bigger need as providing some type of curriculum to support and elevate intermediate drivers. Once out of student groups, session debriefs are no longer educational in nature, access to instruction falls, red tape on who can or can not ride right seat provides roadblocks, actual or perceived, to coaching and progression falls off sharply. Diablo region did a great job with this at their most recent Sonoma event, where intermediate groups had classroom sessions with a coach after each driving session. I haven't been able to take advantage due to scheduling, but GGR is also taking steps to support intermediate / advance drivers with instruction and data analysis support as mentioned earlier in this thread. I'm sure other regions are doing similar, but I haven't seen any other groups I run with implementing similar programs.
I like the open track in time trials, but I think that experience running in close proximity with cars of similar pace in an expanded or open passing environment would be more valuable in preparing for the transition to CR. I'm curious as to how everyone in this thread feels about the potential to be gridded next to someone like myself that technically meets the experience requirement for licensing but has zero experience in an environment that resembles an actual race?
07-29-2024, 10:01 PM
#154
Burning Brakes
All very good points and I had a similar jump into racing. I suspect a lot of people go through the same process. Do a bunch of DEs, meet a few racers, get a feel for it, experience a race and just set your mind to it.
I for one have been a big proponent of every PCA race having a DE simply for the DE folks to experience the race paddock, experience the starts, experience the whole race live. Talk to racers while there. It is quite an experience and you really get a good feel for it. Not all but I bet you some will catch the bug. I also would be glad to line up next to DE guys that want to experience open passing and w2w. Maybe a way to do that is on race weekends to have one open practice where both racers and DE guys can have both of those. It would take some coordination from National/Region and a willingness of racer to be good citizens but certainly doable. Only a handful would make a huge difference.
A race school would be a great idea to make the transition easier. A formal “intro to racing” before the race school would be great too to demystify the process.
I for one have been a big proponent of every PCA race having a DE simply for the DE folks to experience the race paddock, experience the starts, experience the whole race live. Talk to racers while there. It is quite an experience and you really get a good feel for it. Not all but I bet you some will catch the bug. I also would be glad to line up next to DE guys that want to experience open passing and w2w. Maybe a way to do that is on race weekends to have one open practice where both racers and DE guys can have both of those. It would take some coordination from National/Region and a willingness of racer to be good citizens but certainly doable. Only a handful would make a huge difference.
A race school would be a great idea to make the transition easier. A formal “intro to racing” before the race school would be great too to demystify the process.
As an intermediate driver (40-50 days over the last 3 years) looking to make the transition from DE/TT to w2w, I love the idea of mentorship. There is so much to take in and so many questions when exploring making the transition. A random conversation with a racer who had their tow vehicle parked next to me about their journey from DE to SPB was a major turning point for me. It made the goal seem attainable, gave me a target to shoot for, and prompted me to participate in significantly more events with the intention of following in their footsteps. Formalizing those conversations into a program would be immensely helpful in navigating the process but also help bridge the gap between DE/TT and CR groups, which seem to be two separate cliques with most regions.
I'm not very familiar with the BMW comp school curriculum, but I assume it's race starts, passing exercises and basic race craft like the virtual POC racers clinic I joined as part of their sim program? I am honestly surprised that's not already offered within PCA, but that also seems like a last step before making the jump into racing. I see a bigger need as providing some type of curriculum to support and elevate intermediate drivers. Once out of student groups, session debriefs are no longer educational in nature, access to instruction falls, red tape on who can or can not ride right seat provides roadblocks, actual or perceived, to coaching and progression falls off sharply. Diablo region did a great job with this at their most recent Sonoma event, where intermediate groups had classroom sessions with a coach after each driving session. I haven't been able to take advantage due to scheduling, but GGR is also taking steps to support intermediate / advance drivers with instruction and data analysis support as mentioned earlier in this thread. I'm sure other regions are doing similar, but I haven't seen any other groups I run with implementing similar programs.
I like the open track in time trials, but I think that experience running in close proximity with cars of similar pace in an expanded or open passing environment would be more valuable in preparing for the transition to CR. I'm curious as to how everyone in this thread feels about the potential to be gridded next to someone like myself that technically meets the experience requirement for licensing but has zero experience in an environment that resembles an actual race?
I'm not very familiar with the BMW comp school curriculum, but I assume it's race starts, passing exercises and basic race craft like the virtual POC racers clinic I joined as part of their sim program? I am honestly surprised that's not already offered within PCA, but that also seems like a last step before making the jump into racing. I see a bigger need as providing some type of curriculum to support and elevate intermediate drivers. Once out of student groups, session debriefs are no longer educational in nature, access to instruction falls, red tape on who can or can not ride right seat provides roadblocks, actual or perceived, to coaching and progression falls off sharply. Diablo region did a great job with this at their most recent Sonoma event, where intermediate groups had classroom sessions with a coach after each driving session. I haven't been able to take advantage due to scheduling, but GGR is also taking steps to support intermediate / advance drivers with instruction and data analysis support as mentioned earlier in this thread. I'm sure other regions are doing similar, but I haven't seen any other groups I run with implementing similar programs.
I like the open track in time trials, but I think that experience running in close proximity with cars of similar pace in an expanded or open passing environment would be more valuable in preparing for the transition to CR. I'm curious as to how everyone in this thread feels about the potential to be gridded next to someone like myself that technically meets the experience requirement for licensing but has zero experience in an environment that resembles an actual race?
07-29-2024, 10:11 PM
#155
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
As an intermediate driver (40-50 days over the last 3 years) looking to make the transition from DE/TT to w2w, I love the idea of mentorship. There is so much to take in and so many questions when exploring making the transition. A random conversation with a racer who had their tow vehicle parked next to me about their journey from DE to SPB was a major turning point for me. It made the goal seem attainable, gave me a target to shoot for, and prompted me to participate in significantly more events with the intention of following in their footsteps. Formalizing those conversations into a program would be immensely helpful in navigating the process but also help bridge the gap between DE/TT and CR groups, which seem to be two separate cliques with most regions.
I'm not very familiar with the BMW comp school curriculum, but I assume it's race starts, passing exercises and basic race craft like the virtual POC racers clinic I joined as part of their sim program? I am honestly surprised that's not already offered within PCA, but that also seems like a last step before making the jump into racing. I see a bigger need as providing some type of curriculum to support and elevate intermediate drivers. Once out of student groups, session debriefs are no longer educational in nature, access to instruction falls, red tape on who can or can not ride right seat provides roadblocks, actual or perceived, to coaching and progression falls off sharply. Diablo region did a great job with this at their most recent Sonoma event, where intermediate groups had classroom sessions with a coach after each driving session. I haven't been able to take advantage due to scheduling, but GGR is also taking steps to support intermediate / advance drivers with instruction and data analysis support as mentioned earlier in this thread. I'm sure other regions are doing similar, but I haven't seen any other groups I run with implementing similar programs.
I like the open track in time trials, but I think that experience running in close proximity with cars of similar pace in an expanded or open passing environment would be more valuable in preparing for the transition to CR. I'm curious as to how everyone in this thread feels about the potential to be gridded next to someone like myself that technically meets the experience requirement for licensing but has zero experience in an environment that resembles an actual race?
I'm not very familiar with the BMW comp school curriculum, but I assume it's race starts, passing exercises and basic race craft like the virtual POC racers clinic I joined as part of their sim program? I am honestly surprised that's not already offered within PCA, but that also seems like a last step before making the jump into racing. I see a bigger need as providing some type of curriculum to support and elevate intermediate drivers. Once out of student groups, session debriefs are no longer educational in nature, access to instruction falls, red tape on who can or can not ride right seat provides roadblocks, actual or perceived, to coaching and progression falls off sharply. Diablo region did a great job with this at their most recent Sonoma event, where intermediate groups had classroom sessions with a coach after each driving session. I haven't been able to take advantage due to scheduling, but GGR is also taking steps to support intermediate / advance drivers with instruction and data analysis support as mentioned earlier in this thread. I'm sure other regions are doing similar, but I haven't seen any other groups I run with implementing similar programs.
I like the open track in time trials, but I think that experience running in close proximity with cars of similar pace in an expanded or open passing environment would be more valuable in preparing for the transition to CR. I'm curious as to how everyone in this thread feels about the potential to be gridded next to someone like myself that technically meets the experience requirement for licensing but has zero experience in an environment that resembles an actual race?
thanks for the feedback on the instruction at our latest Sonoma event also. We recognized we had a big hole in our instructing program. Really good instruction for beginner and intermediate drivers but not much for our advanced drivers to help them hone their skill and find those last few tenths and seconds. To fill this gap, we - GGR and Diablo - are developing an Advanced DE coaching program using data and video vice in car coaching. We procured some of the new Vbox Lite systems to capture data and video, then compare that data against a lap from our database of tracks around the region. It’s looking very promising so far.
Apologies that this thread seems a bit off topic, but it does pint to improving PCA Club Racing. We’ve actually had 3 advanced DEers turn into club racers after a few weekends of this new Advanced DE instruction, so that’s kind of cool.
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mobius911 (07-29-2024)
07-30-2024, 02:12 PM
#156
I've been away from Rennlist for a few weeks and just catching up, and I know everyone has different experiences with different chapters around the country, different clubs running in various regions. And That one aspect is what I'd focus on before saying this....
My experiences in PCA Club racing have not been AS GOOD as with NASA Mid-Altantic, and by a FAR margin. The racing with NASA, is much more predictable, more trusting of those drivers (Both Thunder and Lightning, as I've been fortunate to run in both mixed class groups) and the racing is much better. Again, this is just my own experience. I trust "some" of the PCA club racers, especially the 944 SP3/2/1 contingent. But some folks out there running seem to forget the situational awareness and the mirrors are there for more than just drag. This is over 5 years of racing with PCA and 6 with NASA MA. Multiple instances of having to drive as if I'm invisible to avoid contact, even driving OFF into the grass to avoid contact from others who just "don't see me". Again, just my experience.
My experiences in PCA Club racing have not been AS GOOD as with NASA Mid-Altantic, and by a FAR margin. The racing with NASA, is much more predictable, more trusting of those drivers (Both Thunder and Lightning, as I've been fortunate to run in both mixed class groups) and the racing is much better. Again, this is just my own experience. I trust "some" of the PCA club racers, especially the 944 SP3/2/1 contingent. But some folks out there running seem to forget the situational awareness and the mirrors are there for more than just drag. This is over 5 years of racing with PCA and 6 with NASA MA. Multiple instances of having to drive as if I'm invisible to avoid contact, even driving OFF into the grass to avoid contact from others who just "don't see me". Again, just my experience.
Last edited by Mikelly; 07-30-2024 at 03:13 PM.
07-30-2024, 02:44 PM
#157
Three Wheelin'
Great points, @bswift Yes, a mentor program would greatly help for drivers like you who want to make the leap from DEing to racing. We’ve done it informally and are looking to formalize a program in GGR / Diablo regions.
thanks for the feedback on the instruction at our latest Sonoma event also. We recognized we had a big hole in our instructing program. Really good instruction for beginner and intermediate drivers but not much for our advanced drivers to help them hone their skill and find those last few tenths and seconds. To fill this gap, we - GGR and Diablo - are developing an Advanced DE coaching program using data and video vice in car coaching. We procured some of the new Vbox Lite systems to capture data and video, then compare that data against a lap from our database of tracks around the region. It’s looking very promising so far.
Apologies that this thread seems a bit off topic, but it does pint to improving PCA Club Racing. We’ve actually had 3 advanced DEers turn into club racers after a few weekends of this new Advanced DE instruction, so that’s kind of cool.
thanks for the feedback on the instruction at our latest Sonoma event also. We recognized we had a big hole in our instructing program. Really good instruction for beginner and intermediate drivers but not much for our advanced drivers to help them hone their skill and find those last few tenths and seconds. To fill this gap, we - GGR and Diablo - are developing an Advanced DE coaching program using data and video vice in car coaching. We procured some of the new Vbox Lite systems to capture data and video, then compare that data against a lap from our database of tracks around the region. It’s looking very promising so far.
Apologies that this thread seems a bit off topic, but it does pint to improving PCA Club Racing. We’ve actually had 3 advanced DEers turn into club racers after a few weekends of this new Advanced DE instruction, so that’s kind of cool.
And I have a small cadre of future potential candidate drivers.
07-30-2024, 03:06 PM
#158
Three Wheelin'
As an intermediate driver (40-50 days over the last 3 years) looking to make the transition from DE/TT to w2w, I love the idea of mentorship. There is so much to take in and so many questions when exploring making the transition. A random conversation with a racer who had their tow vehicle parked next to me about their journey from DE to SPB was a major turning point for me. It made the goal seem attainable, gave me a target to shoot for, and prompted me to participate in significantly more events with the intention of following in their footsteps. Formalizing those conversations into a program would be immensely helpful in navigating the process but also help bridge the gap between DE/TT and CR groups, which seem to be two separate cliques with most regions.
I'm not very familiar with the BMW comp school curriculum, but I assume it's race starts, passing exercises and basic race craft like the virtual POC racers clinic I joined as part of their sim program? I am honestly surprised that's not already offered within PCA, but that also seems like a last step before making the jump into racing. I see a bigger need as providing some type of curriculum to support and elevate intermediate drivers. Once out of student groups, session debriefs are no longer educational in nature, access to instruction falls, red tape on who can or can not ride right seat provides roadblocks, actual or perceived, to coaching and progression falls off sharply. Diablo region did a great job with this at their most recent Sonoma event, where intermediate groups had classroom sessions with a coach after each driving session. I haven't been able to take advantage due to scheduling, but GGR is also taking steps to support intermediate / advance drivers with instruction and data analysis support as mentioned earlier in this thread. I'm sure other regions are doing similar, but I haven't seen any other groups I run with implementing similar programs.
I like the open track in time trials, but I think that experience running in close proximity with cars of similar pace in an expanded or open passing environment would be more valuable in preparing for the transition to CR. I'm curious as to how everyone in this thread feels about the potential to be gridded next to someone like myself that technically meets the experience requirement for licensing but has zero experience in an environment that resembles an actual race?
I'm not very familiar with the BMW comp school curriculum, but I assume it's race starts, passing exercises and basic race craft like the virtual POC racers clinic I joined as part of their sim program? I am honestly surprised that's not already offered within PCA, but that also seems like a last step before making the jump into racing. I see a bigger need as providing some type of curriculum to support and elevate intermediate drivers. Once out of student groups, session debriefs are no longer educational in nature, access to instruction falls, red tape on who can or can not ride right seat provides roadblocks, actual or perceived, to coaching and progression falls off sharply. Diablo region did a great job with this at their most recent Sonoma event, where intermediate groups had classroom sessions with a coach after each driving session. I haven't been able to take advantage due to scheduling, but GGR is also taking steps to support intermediate / advance drivers with instruction and data analysis support as mentioned earlier in this thread. I'm sure other regions are doing similar, but I haven't seen any other groups I run with implementing similar programs.
I like the open track in time trials, but I think that experience running in close proximity with cars of similar pace in an expanded or open passing environment would be more valuable in preparing for the transition to CR. I'm curious as to how everyone in this thread feels about the potential to be gridded next to someone like myself that technically meets the experience requirement for licensing but has zero experience in an environment that resembles an actual race?
I think that is great.
Here is some perspective from my experience...
Back when I started PCA had DE's... but I am not sure there were any time trial programs except in the GGR. The GGR TT program had been going for some time when I arrived in the region circa 1991.
I started GGR TT in 1995 and was very active for about 6 years.
These were always two-day weekend events. Four sessions on Saturday, two Sunday morning, and then solo TT runs Sunday afternoon.
We were just starting to use in car timing devices (Hot Lap timers-- by happenstance, manufactured right in Mt. View near the previous locations of Garretson's and Rennwerks).
Many GGR TT drivers spent a fair amount of time competing in AX events as well.
These were competitive events, and a high percentage of participants "worked the craft." They enjoyed the "experience" driving and in the paddock, but when driving, they were working to improve nearly all the time.
The culture was somewhat remarkable. For example, all grid positions were ordered on a voluntary basis. So in the ~15 minute window before a session, folks would place themselves at what they felt was a good position relative to their brothers and sisters.
Everyone felt that approach would yield the best opportunities to work the craft and get the best lap times.
We had a season-long series, car classes, individual event fast timed lap recognition, and season championships.
These experiences were a direct path to racing for many desiring "next steps," because we were already competing.
Then track days were invented, and private organizations started to appear. In car video and social media started to become more widespread.
The "experience" of track driving for a large number of people eclipsed the priority of working the craft.
Along the way, the cars changed.
So to me there has been this natural evolution, and opportunities to drive in track events/DEs where a majority of participants are there to work the craft have been eclipsed by opportunities to attend those where most folks are there for the "experience."
Cannot go back to the old days.
Some groups with which I am familiar created TT run groups as a gateway to racing. NASA and NCRC come to mind.
I think increasing opportunities to compete for time and exist in a run group or an entire event where most are there to "work the craft" might help folks cross into racing.
Last edited by Mahler9th; 07-30-2024 at 03:13 PM.
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Nowanker (07-30-2024)
07-30-2024, 08:09 PM
#159
Instructor
This is a great point. So often the jump from DEing to club racing is not readily understood or known by folks who have an interest in making the leap, and PCA doesn’t really do a good job of explaining it. We recognized we had this situation in my region (GGR) last year and implemented an Introduction to Club Racing program. We now have a local club racer take 5-10 minutes in the DE Drivers meeting to talk about club racing, how to make the leap, to anyone interested. It really seems to mean a lot to hear a local racers story about how he or she went from DEing to racing. Takes the mystery out of it.
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tgsmith4845 (07-30-2024)
07-31-2024, 10:44 AM
#160
Rennlist Member
This is a great thread, really has spurred some great discussion.
I've been racing/de for 20 years, built my first racecar in 2008.
I think the rise of spec classes and decline of letter classes says it all.... When I was coming up through the DE ranks, converting my 993 to G class was pretty straightforward ans there was tons of great racing in G in 2008.
Fast forward to today. How feasible ($$$$) is it to take a 991 and go racing in a letter class?
Even if it made sense, there is no one to race with... everyone is in GTB or GTC... converting to that spec is a big commitment....
So rather than drop 20k to make the necessary safety mods and try my hand at racing (who knows if ill like it) i now have to sell my car and go buy something completely new just to see if ill like .
Is it even feasible to bring a modern 911 to CR saftey specs?
I've been racing/de for 20 years, built my first racecar in 2008.
I think the rise of spec classes and decline of letter classes says it all.... When I was coming up through the DE ranks, converting my 993 to G class was pretty straightforward ans there was tons of great racing in G in 2008.
Fast forward to today. How feasible ($$$$) is it to take a 991 and go racing in a letter class?
Even if it made sense, there is no one to race with... everyone is in GTB or GTC... converting to that spec is a big commitment....
So rather than drop 20k to make the necessary safety mods and try my hand at racing (who knows if ill like it) i now have to sell my car and go buy something completely new just to see if ill like .
Is it even feasible to bring a modern 911 to CR saftey specs?
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tgsmith4845 (08-01-2024)
07-31-2024, 11:34 AM
#161
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
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This is a great thread, really has spurred some great discussion.
I've been racing/de for 20 years, built my first racecar in 2008.
I think the rise of spec classes and decline of letter classes says it all.... When I was coming up through the DE ranks, converting my 993 to G class was pretty straightforward ans there was tons of great racing in G in 2008.
Fast forward to today. How feasible ($$$$) is it to take a 991 and go racing in a letter class?
Even if it made sense, there is no one to race with... everyone is in GTB or GTC... converting to that spec is a big commitment....
So rather than drop 20k to make the necessary safety mods and try my hand at racing (who knows if ill like it) i now have to sell my car and go buy something completely new just to see if ill like .
Is it even feasible to bring a modern 911 to CR saftey specs?
I've been racing/de for 20 years, built my first racecar in 2008.
I think the rise of spec classes and decline of letter classes says it all.... When I was coming up through the DE ranks, converting my 993 to G class was pretty straightforward ans there was tons of great racing in G in 2008.
Fast forward to today. How feasible ($$$$) is it to take a 991 and go racing in a letter class?
Even if it made sense, there is no one to race with... everyone is in GTB or GTC... converting to that spec is a big commitment....
So rather than drop 20k to make the necessary safety mods and try my hand at racing (who knows if ill like it) i now have to sell my car and go buy something completely new just to see if ill like .
Is it even feasible to bring a modern 911 to CR saftey specs?
Many, but not all, of the people who can afford a 992 or Clubsport are driving one of the PCNA series. With PCA you have a smattering of 992s, 991.1s, .2s, and Clubsports, but the real growth appears to be in classes with "older" cars.
SPC, SPB and 911CUP seem to be the strongest classes and the 944 based classes still have a lot of support as well. The only class that is made up of converted street cars, which seems to be doing well, is GTB1. With the introduction of SPC, and if ME1 catches fire, the letter classes will be done and dusted.
I don't think that signals a problem, it is just what PCA is becomming.
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ProCoach (07-31-2024)
07-31-2024, 12:03 PM
#162
This is a great thread, really has spurred some great discussion.
I've been racing/de for 20 years, built my first racecar in 2008.
I think the rise of spec classes and decline of letter classes says it all.... When I was coming up through the DE ranks, converting my 993 to G class was pretty straightforward ans there was tons of great racing in G in 2008.
Fast forward to today. How feasible ($$$$) is it to take a 991 and go racing in a letter class?
Even if it made sense, there is no one to race with... everyone is in GTB or GTC... converting to that spec is a big commitment....
So rather than drop 20k to make the necessary safety mods and try my hand at racing (who knows if ill like it) i now have to sell my car and go buy something completely new just to see if ill like .
Is it even feasible to bring a modern 911 to CR saftey specs?
I've been racing/de for 20 years, built my first racecar in 2008.
I think the rise of spec classes and decline of letter classes says it all.... When I was coming up through the DE ranks, converting my 993 to G class was pretty straightforward ans there was tons of great racing in G in 2008.
Fast forward to today. How feasible ($$$$) is it to take a 991 and go racing in a letter class?
Even if it made sense, there is no one to race with... everyone is in GTB or GTC... converting to that spec is a big commitment....
So rather than drop 20k to make the necessary safety mods and try my hand at racing (who knows if ill like it) i now have to sell my car and go buy something completely new just to see if ill like .
Is it even feasible to bring a modern 911 to CR saftey specs?
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ProCoach (07-31-2024)
07-31-2024, 12:33 PM
#163
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07-31-2024, 12:37 PM
#164
Rennlist Member
There no ladder anymore. There no way to transition from DE to race No way to dip your toe in...
if I were starting today with a new to me 2016 991 (my 993 was 8 when I bought it) and thought I might like to race.... Id have to sell it and buy an "old" spec class car (or newish cup) then hope I like racing.....
Only way in is to jump in the deep end and hope you can swim....
Last edited by jscott82; 07-31-2024 at 12:39 PM.
07-31-2024, 12:38 PM
#165
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PCA racing is rapidly evolving into vintage racing.
Many, but not all, of the people who can afford a 992 or Clubsport are driving one of the PCNA series. With PCA you have a smattering of 992s, 991.1s, .2s, and Clubsports, but the real growth appears to be in classes with "older" cars.
SPC, SPB and 911CUP seem to be the strongest classes and the 944 based classes still have a lot of support as well. The only class that is made up of converted street cars, which seems to be doing well, is GTB1. With the introduction of SPC, and if ME1 catches fire, the letter classes will be done and dusted.
I don't think that signals a problem, it is just what PCA is becoming.
Many, but not all, of the people who can afford a 992 or Clubsport are driving one of the PCNA series. With PCA you have a smattering of 992s, 991.1s, .2s, and Clubsports, but the real growth appears to be in classes with "older" cars.
SPC, SPB and 911CUP seem to be the strongest classes and the 944 based classes still have a lot of support as well. The only class that is made up of converted street cars, which seems to be doing well, is GTB1. With the introduction of SPC, and if ME1 catches fire, the letter classes will be done and dusted.
I don't think that signals a problem, it is just what PCA is becoming.
Your observation of the class migration within PCA CR matches what I've seen for the last decade or more. Few letter cars, very few home-built GT cars, even B1 is not what it was in the mid 20-teens.