OK - let's get this out there: Who has grabbed the wheel when sitting right seat?

I had to do it once going over the uphill at Lime Rock when I realized the wheel position was going to send us into the wall. The funny thing is I did not even think about it. Self-preservation took over and it just happened.

I don't advocate grabbing the wheel of a student while sitting right seat, but if you need to do it to prevent a crash that is going to happen, then I think it is appropriate.

Haven't had to do it, but certainly would not rule it out in that situation.

A few years ago at a biblically wet LRP, I came over the uphill to the sight of a Mini doing a 360 down the middle of the track. I lifted off and slowed down to see where he would stop spinning, assuming he may shoot off to one side once he got his wheels straight. My instructor tried to grab the wheel and pull me into the direction of where the mini was spinning almost causing an accident in the process. I calmly pitted and explained to him in no uncertain terms it's my car, I'm in the left seat and responsible for control of the vehicle and that under no circumstances do I ever expect a passenger, instructor or not, to touch the controls. In my experience the best instructors are always racers, this particular instructor was not.

Now I very rarely have an instructor in the car, when I do its a friend who races (and is actually fast) and I trust him to push me to extract the maximum from the car safely.

Thankfully I’ve never had to do this from a self-preservation standpoint, but I do use it when coaching students relatively often. It appears to help most on double Apex corners where they can’t quite see where they’re trying to get to to. Turns 11 and 14 at Sebring are common areas for me, sometimes 17a as well but that one doesn’t happen often.

Typically we’ll do it on the cool down lap and then in later sessions at speed if necessary (always after a warning that I’m going to do it).

Many times :( The best one was at Summit Point in Turn 10, my student turned to abrupt, just a little bit, but enough that I could feel the weight shift and knew the backend was about to come around. Meanwhile he’s adding more steering which is going to put us in the inside wall. I reached over, grabbed the wheel at about the 5 o-clock position, gently opened it up, and the car corrected with no issue. The student had no idea I did that and as we exited the corner onto the main straight he yelled “I nailed that!”. When we finished the session I asked him to watch his video (GoPro attached to rollbar inside the cabin) and tell me what he thought about that turn, he later thanked me for saving his car.

That lack of situational awareness is scary - how could he not recognize the third hand on the wheel? Perhaps you did the input smooth enough that he just thought it was feedback from the car. But still, SMH.

As a side note, big believer for having video of the driver in the car. This is biased by the fact that what I remember about dramatic events is always wrong in some way and the camera sorts it out.

I'm in 100% agreement with what you are saying with the caveat that if my life is in danger I am going to do what I am going to do. That being said, I think if you grab the wheel you better be 100% in the right.

In your case it sounds like the instructor didn't trust you enough to steer clear of the accident and perhaps that is not enough of a reason to grab the wheel.

Looking back on my entire DE "career" there are two distinct moments I think of that definitely made my entire experience safer.
The first was the classroom part of my very first "Introductory Driver's School" that PCA makes people take before they can do their first actual DE. I wish I remembered who was conducting it. During the class, the instructor did an EXCELLENT job of explaining early and late apexes and exactly why a late apex is safer and for some reason it felt like an epiphany to me. I mean... I've been playing racing video games since I was a kid and know how to aim for an apex... but the way he drew it out and explained the whole thing made it SO CLEAR why people tend to aim for an early apex and how that can all go horribly wrong but how a late apex isn't the fastest way through but aims you in the right direction so you can then back it up slowly and safely to what you ultimately want.

The second was actually from @911 Rod who posted earlier. He very calmly and clearly explained to me what to do when I went off track to stay safe and not kill us both. Stay calm... keep the wheels straight... don't try to swerve back on... get control... and then carefully re-enter the track. Having all this stuff in my head ahead of time, and not just in passing, but REALLY drilled in as an important lesson, made a world of difference and probably saved me years later when it finally, inevitably, happened.

I can look back and pick out a bunch of other moments where instructors helped me get smoother or quicker... but these two above were more important than any of that.

So my advice here for new instructors... is just ask about these things. "Do you know the difference between an early and late apex and what happens when you do them?" and "Do you know what to do if you're heading off the tarmac?" If they don't... please teach them. :)

“Breath”. ‘Wiggle or reflex your fingers a little on long straits”

New Instructor Report: Wow, this is a LOT of work. It is one thing talking to a friend about your racing line wisdom over a beer at the pub. It is a whole other thing trying to clearly conveying a high performance driving concept to a nervous student while fast approaching the next corner. Add then jumping in and driving your own car in the next session, and giving the occasional hot taxi laps to boot. I am mentally and physically exhausted by the end of the day!

On the rewarding side, I was able to move my student to solo this past weekend after 11 failed attempts with prior instructors. And, a truly rewarding experience was having him follow me in the solo group on the last session of the day and seeing it all come together. I slowly added speed until we were doing some really quick laps, and he was making adjustments to get to the apexes just as I taught him. As I looked in the rearview mirror, I could not help but to be proud of our mutual accomplishment.

It gets easier with some experience! You're not yet fully "unconsciously competent" in the passenger seat--you still have to think about the words and cadence.

In the old days we regularly had 2 students. I would be so 'instructed out" that my mouth literally wouldn't speak properly by the last student session of the day.
Anyway, welcome, congrats, and remember, no good deed goes unpunished. :cool:

That first weekend instructing is an incredible amount of work. I had the first hints of what this would be like instructing for the car control school - there isn't a lot of time between seeing "what's wrong", stringing the thought together, and getting the words out in time for them to be valuable to the student. You have to be concise and you have to tailor that conciseness to your student's thought process. As was emphasized by the LSR PCA ITS I went through: "You have to get inside that student's head!". This starts with the pre-flight before the first session because you combine that learning of your student with what they do on those first few laps to figure out what is next.

My first weekend instructing felt much like my first weekend as a newbie. As the newbie it was constant thinking and taking sips from the fire hose. As the instructor it was constant thinking and deluging the student with the fire hose. You quickly learn that you can absolutely drown your student in information so getting that down to a manageable level is key. Oh, and there are two students to figure out as well. I recall never taking my driving gear off after lunch on Saturday until the track went cold.

Funny story, by the time I was invited to ITS I was a "seasoned driver". I knew how to prep the car, knew what to bring, how to prep myself, drive my sessions and it was all "routine" and nearly automatic. The first weekend instructing and a lot of that routine was simply gone - the much more intense schedule threw everything off. I recall the weather was cold and I was driving a dual purpose car. Rush to get out in the second Red (instructor) session after debriefing my first Blue (newbie+) student's session and something is off, but I can't put my finger on what is wrong. Car sounds kind of funny, but not. No funny smells, gauges fine, but my inner mechanic is really bothered. 3 laps into it I realized I hadn't rolled the passenger side window down! None of the flaggers caught it either, but still, it is not something that would have happened before. I laughed it off as part of the experience.

With experience, things will return to normal. Today, I know how to prep the car, know what to bring, how to prep myself, go find my students, do the pre-flights, instruct, do the debriefs, and drive my own sessions and it is nearly automatic. However, I don't drive all my sessions anymore. As a newbie I could not believe all the guys packing up "early" on Sunday. The last time I "ran all my sessions" was the first weekend instructing.

It certainly has its rewards and they get better with experience as well - like the first time one of your former newbies is introduced as part of the new graduating class at the Saturday morning instructor's meeting.

Welcome to a whole new world.

My hot tip when having two students is to prep a cool drink and have a straw that you can drink it with so you don’t have to take off your helmet between your back to back sessions.

As others have said, it gets easier as you get more time in the right seat :burnout:

I find at times 2 students can be exhausting. If I'm instructing in 2 groups and running my own run that is 3 out of 5. Add in the time sitting in the car and it ends up being 70% of the day.
My biggest worry is mixing up which student is capable of what.

This reminds me of a big lesson I learned as I began instructing. I had several students worth of experience (usually the easy Blues) and now had a student I couldn’t connect with. I talked to the mentor instructor that worked with me during my IC training and he said, “you will discover that driving is the easy part”. Huge eye opener and extremely correct.