For Instructors - PSM
03-13-2004, 12:51 AM
#31
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Thanks Mike;
Well done. Good indepth info for all PSM drivers and instructors.
- For my own part, I probably will never have the opportunity to drive a car "in anger" that is PSM equipped, and so I may never have the nuanced experience that you have gained.
- As I mentioned earlier, it can indeed be used as a yardstick for students to judge whether they are doing well or not without having to soil their britches to do it! On the other hand, some may never learn to drive without this "reliance," and therefore never really learn at all.
- I understand its benefits, but I want control, thank you. Yes indeed you certainly can seem to "drive around it," but if I want or need to drive in a certain fashion, I damn well do not want my car to tell me I can't. There will always be situations where it just cannot make the difference in my estimation. Sometimes you simply have to do something rash in order to save the day, or mitigate damage. PSM might just be a hinderance to this. I've pulled a couple of "flyers" over the years to avoid something potentially ruinous. Thinking of PSM has me wondering what the outcome would have been.
- We all know how we rely on electronic aids in our daily lives..... and what happens when they fail. I don't mind being screwed, but I don't sleep with my car!
Just my opinion.
Well done. Good indepth info for all PSM drivers and instructors.
- For my own part, I probably will never have the opportunity to drive a car "in anger" that is PSM equipped, and so I may never have the nuanced experience that you have gained.
- As I mentioned earlier, it can indeed be used as a yardstick for students to judge whether they are doing well or not without having to soil their britches to do it! On the other hand, some may never learn to drive without this "reliance," and therefore never really learn at all.
- I understand its benefits, but I want control, thank you. Yes indeed you certainly can seem to "drive around it," but if I want or need to drive in a certain fashion, I damn well do not want my car to tell me I can't. There will always be situations where it just cannot make the difference in my estimation. Sometimes you simply have to do something rash in order to save the day, or mitigate damage. PSM might just be a hinderance to this. I've pulled a couple of "flyers" over the years to avoid something potentially ruinous. Thinking of PSM has me wondering what the outcome would have been.
- We all know how we rely on electronic aids in our daily lives..... and what happens when they fail. I don't mind being screwed, but I don't sleep with my car!
Just my opinion.
03-13-2004, 11:52 AM
#32
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Speaking as one who works on PSM-type systems (at the design end, known generically as Electronic Stability Control, ESC, or Electronic Stability Program, ESP), I also agree that it SHOULD NOT be turned off until the student is signed off. A good smooth driver who knows the car will not generally get much, if any, in the way if stability control hits when cornering - especially during steady-state corners and close to it.
You will not be able to swing the butt-end of the car around, rallye style, with ESC on. However, I'm pretty sure that technique is only being taught in the off-road rallye schools?
Likewise, as I think was alluded to, the student should be learning how to drive the car WITHOUT relying on the traction control and ABS. However, rather than, per se, turning these off, this should be accomplished by the student learning how to drive right up to the limit where the systems kick in. TCS (traction control) is the only one I would consider turning off during the instruction process. Throttle ramp-in until TCS is about to kick in is what they should learn; likewise, ramp in the brakes until ABS is just about to kick in. Don't just smack the brake pedal. If all they learn is how to spank the brake pedal, they've really learned nothing about the limits of the car, how to sense them, or how to drive it.
If anyone has any questions about how PSM works, fire away...
You will not be able to swing the butt-end of the car around, rallye style, with ESC on. However, I'm pretty sure that technique is only being taught in the off-road rallye schools?
Likewise, as I think was alluded to, the student should be learning how to drive the car WITHOUT relying on the traction control and ABS. However, rather than, per se, turning these off, this should be accomplished by the student learning how to drive right up to the limit where the systems kick in. TCS (traction control) is the only one I would consider turning off during the instruction process. Throttle ramp-in until TCS is about to kick in is what they should learn; likewise, ramp in the brakes until ABS is just about to kick in. Don't just smack the brake pedal. If all they learn is how to spank the brake pedal, they've really learned nothing about the limits of the car, how to sense them, or how to drive it.
If anyone has any questions about how PSM works, fire away...
03-13-2004, 02:01 PM
#33
Telling a first time track driver to turn off his PSM probably won't get you sued, but maybe it should. I caught the track virus last year and did my first track event last May. On day 1, I entered a 65 mph turn at what I thought was too fast a speed (it would have been ok) and did the newbie 911 driver full lift. The Hand Of God PSM reached out of the sky and straightened the car out before the instructor could utter a word. I realized I made a mistake and learned from it without the risks to life, limb, and property associated with sideways agricultural motoring.
It isn't really that hard to tell when it has kicked in. While you certainly shouldn't allow a student to repetitively throw the car beyond its limits and rely on PSM to collect it back up, I don't think beginning drivers should be disabling a valuable safety system. After the first 10 track days, I stopped using it after both the tires and I warmed up. But in the beginning when a driver is just learning basic car control skills and prone to making major errors through inexperience, disabling the PSM makes no sense to me.
I did three PCA DE's last year and had a great instructor at the first event. The second instructor was a self important, pompous individual who bristled when I refused to disable the safety system ( despite the fact that I only activated it twice during accelleration out of a low speed corner.) I certainly can understand the anxiety associated with getting into the passenger seat during a DE, but it's difficult to fathom how turning off the safety net makes you safer. If the student is engaging in overconfident, unsafe behavior, correct it.
It isn't really that hard to tell when it has kicked in. While you certainly shouldn't allow a student to repetitively throw the car beyond its limits and rely on PSM to collect it back up, I don't think beginning drivers should be disabling a valuable safety system. After the first 10 track days, I stopped using it after both the tires and I warmed up. But in the beginning when a driver is just learning basic car control skills and prone to making major errors through inexperience, disabling the PSM makes no sense to me.
I did three PCA DE's last year and had a great instructor at the first event. The second instructor was a self important, pompous individual who bristled when I refused to disable the safety system ( despite the fact that I only activated it twice during accelleration out of a low speed corner.) I certainly can understand the anxiety associated with getting into the passenger seat during a DE, but it's difficult to fathom how turning off the safety net makes you safer. If the student is engaging in overconfident, unsafe behavior, correct it.
03-13-2004, 10:31 PM
#34
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Great stuff guys! Mike P - Maybe my ears are bad and my ***=o=meter too but i can't hear the brakes coming on wearing a helmet with intercom and both windows down at speed. I've been driving Porsches for a long time and I've never had a car with PSM. Thanks for the explanation of how it works - by the way are they all the same or have the rules changed with the newer cars?
I think I said it above, a gross intervention of PSM is obvious. The more subtle ones less so. I agree with all who say that a driver should not get into PSM and it is the instructors job to make sure that doesn't happen.
PRG - I am sympathetic - not all instructors are perfect and interpersonal chemistry counts. You got a bad instructor (afraid maybe) or perhaps just a bad fit personality wise. If they guy had been on his game he would have prevented you from accelerating hard enough to get into PSM in the first place. If PSM had been off, you would have at the least felt the back end sliding out under excess power and learned a lesson even before your instructor had time to react.
Having been an instructor for ten years, my seat-of-the pants G meter is well tuned - I can feel the harsh acceleration before the car responds (usually). The reason I began this thread is because PSM can fool me. Worse, less experienced drivers have learned that they can mash the throttle with impunity... or can they? That's why I am very interested in knowing about PSM and how I can be a better instructor.
924 Racr - I'd love to hear more about how stability program work and what their limits are.
Regards,
I think I said it above, a gross intervention of PSM is obvious. The more subtle ones less so. I agree with all who say that a driver should not get into PSM and it is the instructors job to make sure that doesn't happen.
PRG - I am sympathetic - not all instructors are perfect and interpersonal chemistry counts. You got a bad instructor (afraid maybe) or perhaps just a bad fit personality wise. If they guy had been on his game he would have prevented you from accelerating hard enough to get into PSM in the first place. If PSM had been off, you would have at the least felt the back end sliding out under excess power and learned a lesson even before your instructor had time to react.
Having been an instructor for ten years, my seat-of-the pants G meter is well tuned - I can feel the harsh acceleration before the car responds (usually). The reason I began this thread is because PSM can fool me. Worse, less experienced drivers have learned that they can mash the throttle with impunity... or can they? That's why I am very interested in knowing about PSM and how I can be a better instructor.
924 Racr - I'd love to hear more about how stability program work and what their limits are.
Regards,
03-14-2004, 10:36 AM
#35
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I agree that really learning how to drive is important as opposed to relying on electronics. But is there a real danger in doing so? Will the car go off more violently and without warning?
03-14-2004, 11:28 AM
#36
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#1 limit of ESC - as Scotty would say, "You canna change the laws of physics!" They work great up until such point as you exceed the traction limits of the tires. It's very possible, once you get used to driving with the system, to use it at the limit all the time. Then comes that one corner you misjudge, and you hit the curb/snowbank/parked car anyway. Oops! I guess this goes back to point #1, students need to learn not simply how to use the system to clean up their messes, but how to drive without it. That said, they should learn this with the system on, by learning how to drive without activating it, not by removing it from the equation.
#2 limitation - response time. The controllers are extremely quick - calculations taking place in milliseconds, analyzing your driving style. However, control and vehicle dynamic response can only happen through mechanical systems - even if it's an electronic controller for the engine. These mechanical systems have finite response times... for example, in applying the brakes, we must build pressure at the wheel in order to build brake torque and induce wheel slip, which results in a stabilizing moment on the car. This all takes time, and while it seems instantaneous to you as a driver, there can be some lag there. Naturally, such systems are calibrated, wherever possible, to compensate for the lag.
#3 limitation - the driver! This is one of the worst parts. Think back to when ABS first hit the market, and people where crashing all over the place. You can't underestimate the ability of some drivers, and while I'd hope that most people hitting the track in a new Porsche have a better than average sense of what's going on, we still work within the limitations of the driver. Not to mention, if you think all ESC systems go on Porsches, you're sadly mistaken. The last car I did (in production - stuff I'm currently working on is naturally years out from now) was the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP Competition Group. I don't have to explain the driving talent there. So the problem is, we can only do what the driver tells us he wants us (the ESC system) to do. If the driver's pointing the steering wheel in the correct direction, OK, great, fine, no worries, we'll get there. But if the driver's doing something stupid, we can't figure out where the car SHOULD be steered to. You still gotta point the thing in the right direction!
As far as how the systems work, well, the basic concept (understanding that there are many variations, both different types and ways to tune them - which is what I do) is that we compare the driver's intent with what the car is actually doing. We can figure out what the driver wants by looking at the steering angle, brake pedal, and throttle - which are the ways you control the car. We can tell what the car's actually doing by looking at the wheel speeds, yaw rate, lat. acceleration, and, in some cases, longitudinal acceleration. By comparing the difference between the two, we can determine if the car's doing what the driver wants or not, and, if it's felt to be necessary, make adjustments by actuating individual brakes and/or changing engine torque to correct the dynamics of the car.
To run through two basic examples, oversteer and understeer. The first would very simply be explained by the actual yaw rate (measured) exceeding a target yaw rate (calculated by looking at steering angle, vehicle speed, etc). if the yaw rate is sufficiently larger than the target (with some room for error, allowing you some room for deviation, so as to keep from being too sensitive and coming on nearly every time you hit a bump in a corner), then we can say that the car is oversteering. If so, we can apply front outer brake to create a stabilizing moment, reducing the yaw rate back to where the driver wants it. If it's RWD, and the driver's on the throttle, it might be appropriate to reduce engine torque a bit to help stabilize too - depends on the details of the tuning and the maneuver.
Likewise, for understeer, we can see that the driver's request (based on steering angle, calculated via Ackerman geometry) is far greater than the yaw rate and lateral that the car is acheiving. We can then grab an inside rear brake, inducing a moment that can help turn the car into the corner better. If it's a nose-heavy FWD car, we may need to reduce engine torque (again, obviously, if the driver's on the gas) to reduced slip on the front wheels and get the car to rotate. Of course, we're still dependent on the front tires to actually turn the car, for the most part, so if the driver is an idjit and continues to dial in steering, at some point the front tires wash out, and can provide little to no lateral force (to to extreme slip angles), and so the car goes straight anyway.
Hope that helps flesh out the basics, feel free to ask more Q's...
#2 limitation - response time. The controllers are extremely quick - calculations taking place in milliseconds, analyzing your driving style. However, control and vehicle dynamic response can only happen through mechanical systems - even if it's an electronic controller for the engine. These mechanical systems have finite response times... for example, in applying the brakes, we must build pressure at the wheel in order to build brake torque and induce wheel slip, which results in a stabilizing moment on the car. This all takes time, and while it seems instantaneous to you as a driver, there can be some lag there. Naturally, such systems are calibrated, wherever possible, to compensate for the lag.
#3 limitation - the driver! This is one of the worst parts. Think back to when ABS first hit the market, and people where crashing all over the place. You can't underestimate the ability of some drivers, and while I'd hope that most people hitting the track in a new Porsche have a better than average sense of what's going on, we still work within the limitations of the driver. Not to mention, if you think all ESC systems go on Porsches, you're sadly mistaken. The last car I did (in production - stuff I'm currently working on is naturally years out from now) was the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP Competition Group. I don't have to explain the driving talent there. So the problem is, we can only do what the driver tells us he wants us (the ESC system) to do. If the driver's pointing the steering wheel in the correct direction, OK, great, fine, no worries, we'll get there. But if the driver's doing something stupid, we can't figure out where the car SHOULD be steered to. You still gotta point the thing in the right direction!
As far as how the systems work, well, the basic concept (understanding that there are many variations, both different types and ways to tune them - which is what I do) is that we compare the driver's intent with what the car is actually doing. We can figure out what the driver wants by looking at the steering angle, brake pedal, and throttle - which are the ways you control the car. We can tell what the car's actually doing by looking at the wheel speeds, yaw rate, lat. acceleration, and, in some cases, longitudinal acceleration. By comparing the difference between the two, we can determine if the car's doing what the driver wants or not, and, if it's felt to be necessary, make adjustments by actuating individual brakes and/or changing engine torque to correct the dynamics of the car.
To run through two basic examples, oversteer and understeer. The first would very simply be explained by the actual yaw rate (measured) exceeding a target yaw rate (calculated by looking at steering angle, vehicle speed, etc). if the yaw rate is sufficiently larger than the target (with some room for error, allowing you some room for deviation, so as to keep from being too sensitive and coming on nearly every time you hit a bump in a corner), then we can say that the car is oversteering. If so, we can apply front outer brake to create a stabilizing moment, reducing the yaw rate back to where the driver wants it. If it's RWD, and the driver's on the throttle, it might be appropriate to reduce engine torque a bit to help stabilize too - depends on the details of the tuning and the maneuver.
Likewise, for understeer, we can see that the driver's request (based on steering angle, calculated via Ackerman geometry) is far greater than the yaw rate and lateral that the car is acheiving. We can then grab an inside rear brake, inducing a moment that can help turn the car into the corner better. If it's a nose-heavy FWD car, we may need to reduce engine torque (again, obviously, if the driver's on the gas) to reduced slip on the front wheels and get the car to rotate. Of course, we're still dependent on the front tires to actually turn the car, for the most part, so if the driver is an idjit and continues to dial in steering, at some point the front tires wash out, and can provide little to no lateral force (to to extreme slip angles), and so the car goes straight anyway.
Hope that helps flesh out the basics, feel free to ask more Q's...
03-14-2004, 01:55 PM
#37
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I like this discussion.
As an instructor one thing I emphasize to students of street legal cars is the value the track experience has with regards to emergency maneuvers on public roads. On the track you can safely learn about your cars performance envelope. So, regarding PSM, I think the student should get plenty of experience with it since it would normally be 'on' for driving on public roads. Experimenting with it and without it is fine, but again learning how the car works in its default configuration is very important.
As an instructor one thing I emphasize to students of street legal cars is the value the track experience has with regards to emergency maneuvers on public roads. On the track you can safely learn about your cars performance envelope. So, regarding PSM, I think the student should get plenty of experience with it since it would normally be 'on' for driving on public roads. Experimenting with it and without it is fine, but again learning how the car works in its default configuration is very important.
03-14-2004, 05:25 PM
#38
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Vaughan - wonderful insights there! I do have questions. Can you comment on any typical behavior when the driver turns PSM off? Earlier in the thread we had great input based on the manual for a 2002 911 with PSM. Having never had a PSM equipped car I learned a lot. The post informed us that when PSM is off, yaw control under braking is still (always) active. Is this typical? To be more specific if a driver is trail braking, will yaw control cause the car to understeer by trying to keep it going straight? Can anyone confirm that PSM stays off when turned off? Todd Serota had someone build him custom circuitry to keep PSM off on his 996 Cab so he seems to think that heavy braking re-enables it.
03-14-2004, 08:42 PM
#39
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Great Stuff Vaughan;
Something tells me that a good old rally turn is out of the question, though.
A good friend of mine had a female student a couple years back. University professor. 40-ish. Conservative and careful. Was having a good time in her 996, and doing quite a good job of learning the line and such, but again... conservative.
Last run, last day. She apparently has morphed into her alter ego and decides she is going to take a flier into Turn 6 at the Glen. For those having been there, enough said. You're shaking at the mere thought if it. For those that haven't, it's a turn from hell if you blow it. Once he realizes she's not slowing down, Frank's screaming BRAAAAAAAAAAAKE at the top of his lungs. She just heaves it.
Heading down the laces, she's just winging it. "BRAAAAAAAAAAAKE!!!!" She just flat heaves it into the "Toe of the Boot" and laughs all the way through while Frank tries to find his internals. She though it was great.
NO CLUE! Guess she didn't learn that much.
Something tells me that a good old rally turn is out of the question, though.
A good friend of mine had a female student a couple years back. University professor. 40-ish. Conservative and careful. Was having a good time in her 996, and doing quite a good job of learning the line and such, but again... conservative.
Last run, last day. She apparently has morphed into her alter ego and decides she is going to take a flier into Turn 6 at the Glen. For those having been there, enough said. You're shaking at the mere thought if it. For those that haven't, it's a turn from hell if you blow it. Once he realizes she's not slowing down, Frank's screaming BRAAAAAAAAAAAKE at the top of his lungs. She just heaves it.
Heading down the laces, she's just winging it. "BRAAAAAAAAAAAKE!!!!" She just flat heaves it into the "Toe of the Boot" and laughs all the way through while Frank tries to find his internals. She though it was great.
NO CLUE! Guess she didn't learn that much.
03-14-2004, 10:15 PM
#40
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Gawd! John, it's the threat of having students like that which I think would prevent me from ever instructing in-car! When I do it, I'm getting paid to, in cars I've designed, in a test track with no other cars or anything else nearby to hit!
Bob, it is correct, some degree of stabilizing function remains when PSM is "switched off." The details of how this is done, in general for ESC systems, will vary from car to car, depending on design intent. Some can reactivate as soon as the brake is touched. Some can come on anyway (more typical for SUVs), even without touching the brake. The Porsche standard, as I understand, is that stabilizing function will come back basically only when you're pretty much in ABS - at which point it's not noticeable, not objectionable, and possibly quite necessary! In this respect, sounds like what Todd is describing is correct.
It shouldn't be objectionable, though, unless you're trying to use a LOT of brake to rotate the car really way at the limit. It'll adjust brake pressures to hold the car steady. It should not, however, cause the car to understeer. Although that is a different thing from saying it won't! Certainly none of my systems have ever caused understeer. Still, it should really just make the car track where the driver steers it, exactly. It should not be a negative factor to the driving experience, and in the testing that I've done, it is not. As always, YMMV (your monkey may vibrate)...
Bob, it is correct, some degree of stabilizing function remains when PSM is "switched off." The details of how this is done, in general for ESC systems, will vary from car to car, depending on design intent. Some can reactivate as soon as the brake is touched. Some can come on anyway (more typical for SUVs), even without touching the brake. The Porsche standard, as I understand, is that stabilizing function will come back basically only when you're pretty much in ABS - at which point it's not noticeable, not objectionable, and possibly quite necessary! In this respect, sounds like what Todd is describing is correct.
It shouldn't be objectionable, though, unless you're trying to use a LOT of brake to rotate the car really way at the limit. It'll adjust brake pressures to hold the car steady. It should not, however, cause the car to understeer. Although that is a different thing from saying it won't! Certainly none of my systems have ever caused understeer. Still, it should really just make the car track where the driver steers it, exactly. It should not be a negative factor to the driving experience, and in the testing that I've done, it is not. As always, YMMV (your monkey may vibrate)...
03-15-2004, 07:25 PM
#41
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I have chosen not to instruct with PCA because I just cannot see how you can teach effectivly at a track like Mosport. we have and excellent learning track at Shannonville; very technical, very safe (only 1 wall) but the Region preferrs Mosport. Fast, challenging track have thier place as the student goes through the learning curve, but as a newbie? Well just my opinion
03-15-2004, 09:08 PM
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Hey Dave;
I have never driven Shannonville.
Mosport is a flat blast. One of my favorites. Perhaps the best blend of high speed flow and twisty corner grappling there is.
I understand your point, but teaching someone to drive well has little to do with the venue. I taught someone to drive over the internet. Not the same as being there (oh GOD would I love to have instructed him at Kyalami!), but he learned nonetheless. True, some might be made overly paranoid by Mosport, but there is more to our hobby than just the purely technical aspects, and I have not experienced any notable difficulties there.
For the same reasons I don't care for chasing cones, and have no interest in going to NHIS or Pocono, I'd probably find Shannonville a colossal bore. I like the round experience of the topography, the trees, the vistas, the trepidation. There is more to it for me that just the purely technical.
A place like Shannonville is the absolute perfect venue for a ground school. If you are solely interested in beating the clock, I have indeed been told it is challenging. But... it's still likely boring in my larger scheme of things!
Just my opinion.
I have never driven Shannonville.
Mosport is a flat blast. One of my favorites. Perhaps the best blend of high speed flow and twisty corner grappling there is.
I understand your point, but teaching someone to drive well has little to do with the venue. I taught someone to drive over the internet. Not the same as being there (oh GOD would I love to have instructed him at Kyalami!), but he learned nonetheless. True, some might be made overly paranoid by Mosport, but there is more to our hobby than just the purely technical aspects, and I have not experienced any notable difficulties there.
For the same reasons I don't care for chasing cones, and have no interest in going to NHIS or Pocono, I'd probably find Shannonville a colossal bore. I like the round experience of the topography, the trees, the vistas, the trepidation. There is more to it for me that just the purely technical.
A place like Shannonville is the absolute perfect venue for a ground school. If you are solely interested in beating the clock, I have indeed been told it is challenging. But... it's still likely boring in my larger scheme of things!
Just my opinion.
03-16-2004, 10:39 AM
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I did my first DE at Shannonville, and was signed off after the first day. Thought I was hot stuff, and track driving seemed so easy --- not! After my first experience at Mosport, I wasn't even sure I could do this. I was ready to quit, but I stuck with it, and after 100 or so track days, am starting to get comfortable at Mosport and Watkins Glen. Comfortable is not good, which is why I ordered a HANS device. I don't drive Shannonville any more.
03-16-2004, 02:41 PM
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Dave G - I've taught at and still teach at both Mosport and Shannonville. I agree with you to the extent that I think that Mosport is one of the most dangerous tracks in the land. It puts a real premium on keeping your student under tight control - the margin for error is low and the consequences high. Shannonville is a much safer place. Not as much fun to drive as Mosport although I love the esses and I hate the first gear hairpin onto the back straight. The fact that it is a safer track does not change my teaching style. I feel I have done a poor job if my student goes off. I think we've all had the "student from hell". A few described above. Fortunately they are a small minority. I enjoy teaching for the satisfaction of seeing someone go from begineer to competent over the course of a season of DE.
Best,
Best,
03-17-2004, 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by RedlineMan
Hey Guys;
You need to start very simple with people, especially newbies. Somebody earlier in the thread mentioned testing a student's ability to follow directions. I agree. I start with EVERY student by simply and plainly telling them EXACTLY WHAT TO DO EVERYWHERE. No theory, no jargon. I inform them that I will use these 6 phrases, explain to them what they mean, and that they are to follow them exactly - BRAKE - OFF BRAKE - TURN IN - THROTTLE - APEX - TRACK OUT. If they do what I say when I say it, I know what I have. If they don't, then we have some work to do before we can learn to drive well
Hey Guys;
You need to start very simple with people, especially newbies. Somebody earlier in the thread mentioned testing a student's ability to follow directions. I agree. I start with EVERY student by simply and plainly telling them EXACTLY WHAT TO DO EVERYWHERE. No theory, no jargon. I inform them that I will use these 6 phrases, explain to them what they mean, and that they are to follow them exactly - BRAKE - OFF BRAKE - TURN IN - THROTTLE - APEX - TRACK OUT. If they do what I say when I say it, I know what I have. If they don't, then we have some work to do before we can learn to drive well
You've got my vote for the best post on a fairly decent thread. As instructors, we'd do well to keep it simple and be very clear. There is more than enough going through the student's mind on the track; don't make it any more complicated than necessary. Just make it safe; and make it fun. Thanks for the post.
Dan
