Z-man

Ok, all this talk of proper track technique got me wondering about my braking skills on the track and at autocrosses.

What I've been taught
Smoothness is the key. As in all aspects of track driving this statement is true. Smoothly transitioning from acceleration to braking to turning is key in going around a corner the fastest way possible. Therefore, I was taught the following progression for a 'standard' turn that requires a single gear downshift:
1. Stay on the throttle until you are ready to brake.
2. When ready to brake, place foot firmly on brake pedal and squeeze down.
3. Once the brakes have taken hold, apply firmer pressure. (FIRMER!)
4. About 3/4 of the way through the braking zone, do a heel-toe downshift to grab a lower gear.
5. As soon as the clutch has engaged, I should be very, very close to the end of the braking zone.
6. I should be easing off the brakes and on the throttle as I start my turn in. If doing trail braking, the brakes are 'dragged' a little longer.

So the sequence from downshifting to finishing braking, to turning in pretty much happen one immediately after another, unless of course, the braking and turning are over-lapped (ala trail braking).

I was taught this in order to have a smooth transition from braking to turning. If I brake too early, then I essentially have to 'wait' for the turn in: I can't accelerate, and I don't need to brake more. Of course, if I brake too late, then I'll be in trouble and likely go off the track. I feel that I'm not rushing my braking: I have plenty of time to brake, downshift, finish braking and turn in.

But all this talk of 'not braking too late' has got me wondering. Is my technique off? Am I braking too late? For example, at Lime Rock, I'm braking somewhere between the 3 and 2 markers for Big Bend.

Could it be that I'm over-braking, and that if I did less braking earlier, I would still have the proper smoothness and rythmn to go through a corner?

So, what's the proper technique?

-Z-man.

Al P.

the fast one

Mark in Baltimore

Good questions that have been at the front of my mind after Sebring.

forklift

Here is the mother of all braking threads:https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...hreadid=106957 although you have to read a BUNCH of crap in between good information. You will see what I mean, but still an informative thread.

Possibly the best thing to come out of that thread was this:http://home.att.net/~ajo/vettranio.pdf

Z-man

Just to clear things up a little: I'm referring to either a DE application, where the corner is NOT contested, or during a race when a driver is not in a heated battle with someone else, just trying to put as much time between him and his nearest competitor, who is behind him but not at the same corner.

-Z.

ColorChange

Please read the thread that forklift mentioned but do not beilieve the article he referenced ... If you read the thread, you will know why. Some people are incapable of learning .

Adam Richman

I don't think "late braking" is the fast way around the track. If you are going to brake down to the apex then yeah, I guess it would be the best means to keep on power longer from the straights. If you can though, I'd try be on throttle as soon as possible - I actually try to breathe between braking and throttle, if I am still too fast at that point, I'll shake the wheel. That's just me though.

dgz924s

Late braking is for contesting in the corners. You drive hard in to the corner applying the brakes later to get beyond the other car and take the corner from him/her. Really no other need for it except carrying too much speed...error. Ideal braking is called " reverse braking". This is where you go hard on the brakes at the zone and slowly releasing the pressure as you enter the turn in. Versus many who get in the habit of riding the brakes to slow and apply hard pressure to compensate then off again to the gas. Not good. On hard off easy not the opposite. Dal

Carrera51

I agree with dgz924. Late braking is a waste in a DE. I've ridden with students who somewhere along the line got it in their head that they need to threshold brake at every single corner. Why??? The only time I late brake is during a race when contesting a corner. I agree that during a DE is a good time to learn how to late brake (that's when I learned). However, to do it every corner, of every run session, is only increasing the wear and tear on your car.

Zman is right, smoothness is the key.

mitch236

Late anything is slow. Obviously, correctly timed everything is fastest. But, obtaining perfection is impossible to do all the time. I have found that slightly early braking is fastest for me. This allows me to concentrate on entry speed which is much more important than loosing a few nano-seconds to "perfect" braking.

Z, I agree (and I think everyone in the know does as well) that smoothness is the key to speed. But try to tell that to a student. They think that a car that is all unsettled and pitching feels fast and therefore must be. Because of that I always teach braking last. I feel that past the fundamentals of good braking technique, the use of advanced braking techniques provides only a small gain in corner time. Smoothness around the track will give the greatest gains. Therefore, teaching your advanced student car control techniques is more important.

Your outline of corner entry is right on. One difference that I use is to come off the brake, not "snap" off. The same with throttle application. But the reason for trailing off the brakes is to save the brakes. The best cooling happens when the car is going the fastest and that is when threshold braking should occur. As the car slows, cooling reduces as well, and that is why I am trailing off the brakes (it's early, that is why I am rambling -sorry). This also keeps the car settled.

ColorChange

Mitch236, I agree with most of what you said. But, the primary reason for trailing braking is because it is the fastest, even though it will save the brakes a little as you say. I also agree that the smoothness you get from proper trail braking is a great benefit, but difficult, especially for a beginner to do. It’s great when you so smoothly transition from threshold braking, ease the pressure and turn in, continue easing brake pressure as the lateral g’s build, then fully release and begin to squeeze the throttle more and more on exit. The car kind of does a highly forceful (lots of g’s) but extremely smooth knifing through the turn, with no rocking or other suspension upset. The load just transfers smoothly from the nose, to the side, to the back of the car in a continuous, nice sweep. I just wish I could do it that way all the time.

mitch236

You're right on. Thanks. By the way, did you notice that our avitars show the exact pose? Love knifing throught those turns!!

Adam Richman

ColorChange, Mitch - I disagree that trail braking is a means to saving brakes, from my experience it builds more heat not less. What we have found running 1.5 hour enduros at Kershaw (hard on brakes) is that breathing between brake and throtte and not trailing into the corner is the best brake preservation.

mitch236

Hum.... but the theory of trailing off the brakes as the car slows and not keeping it at threshold until entry should give better cooling, shouldn't it? I am just drawing on logic here.

dgz924s

Trail braking is for "scrubbing speed" not slowing or stopping the car. All it is is riding the brakes while in the corner to keep some throttle into it at the same time keeping the car from over drifting and releasing the brakes as soon as the car gets back on line or settled to apply the rest of the throttle. So the more this is used so go the pads and rotors. Dal