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I would think that even the side impact g-force applied to the neck without a halo (even if the helmet doesn’t hit anything) would be tremendous and life-threatening in its own right. Luck may be involved here in more than one way.
Halo seat is a valuable safety item, agreed.
My rationalization for not using one in my case as follows:
- some organizations require a roll cage when using a halo seat (correct me if i am wrong) which short circuits OEM crash structure design.
- egress in case of fire gets complicated by halo seat and roll cage, fire suppression and fuel cell would make sense
- then no longer practical as a road car
plenty more examples of "luck" may not be coincidence:
I am sure many in this group when a low risk opportunity presented itself {in your formative years] would have ventured to see what their high powered car would do prior to a time where taking it to the track makes a whole lot more sense
Also my friend lost control at a 135 hit a bridge abutment sideways (no telling how much he was slowed by embankment) walked away , no safety gear
Safety only works as a system, not in safety parts. A street car with OEM safety (almost always) works better than one with only partial safety mods that don't add up to a whole system. There are many discussions about this here on RL. In the case of your friend, he benefited from his body NOT being strapped into a harness and being allowed to accelerate into the side airbags as a whole. If he was strapped in harnesses, his neck would have snapped from the difference in side acceleration between his head and body.
I am sure many in this group when a low risk opportunity presented itself {in your formative years] would have ventured to see what their high powered car would do prior to a time where taking it to the track makes a whole lot more sense
That is true for me. Glad I never had an incident when I exercised poor judgement in my younger years. I am grateful to have access to tracks where no laws are broken and the risk is much lower.
Safety only works as a system, not in safety parts. A street car with OEM safety (almost always) works better than one with only partial safety mods that don't add up to a whole system. There are many discussions about this here on RL. In the case of your friend, he benefited from his body NOT being strapped into a harness and being allowed to accelerate into the side airbags as a whole. If he was strapped in harnesses, his neck would have snapped from the difference in side acceleration between his head and body.
Good point, agree 100%, will search RL, love to learn
How did you know he hit on the drivers side? correct btw.
In my less than fully informed opinion, Fritz was better off without a roll cage which has the effect of imparting much higher G loads to driver due to taking the controlled deceleration feature of a deformable structure out of the equation. What also helped is that GT3 was at or near max cornering loads thus less initial resistance to impact, instead some energy expended in moving GT3 across the grass.
With the impact being to the passenger side of the GT3, this may be true in this case. But IMO likely not true if the impact had been to the driver's side, and generally I think most will agree that a cage with proper halo seat and harnesses and fire suppression (i.e., race car safety system) is safer on the track than OEM safety systems in street cars.
Interesting point about the effect of the GT3 at being max cornering loads. I agree, though I suspect that the benefit was small.
Running in yellow/white solo groups at Sebring in a '98 Boxster, there was nothing like getting a point by coming out of turn 16 only to have a car (pretty much everything had more HP) floor the accelerator and walk away from me only for me to catch them back up after turn 1.
Sometimes even catching them right away again at 17 and being held up there again, only to be rocketed away from down the front straight Then repeat...
Sorry I should keep to the original topic, my earlier post (11:01 EST) i gave 2 examples (BMW e60 m5) of side impact instances where the OEM chassis also performed as well as the GT3 in this discussion without safety gear .
One example i gave was drivers side, the other on m5board.com the owner hit Armco on passenger side and concluded he would invest in halo seat and harness next time out
As has been stated (and i agree a 100%) a hit on the passenger side makes a halo seat as part of a complete safety system invaluable in side impact survivealbility.
Last edited by bertram928; 07-23-2019 at 04:03 PM.
With the impact being to the passenger side of the GT3, this may be true in this case. But IMO likely not true if the impact had been to the driver's side, and generally I think most will agree that a cage with proper halo seat and harnesses and fire suppression (i.e., race car safety system) is safer on the track than OEM safety systems in street cars.
Interesting point about the effect of the GT3 at being max cornering loads. I agree, though I suspect that the benefit was small.
No doubt, especially in a 2 door car if hit dead on center of drivers door not much there to hold back passenger cell intrusion.
Would not want to be in a removable roof panel vette in the yellow group as a rank beginner without a roll cage, especially on all season tires trying to hold back 6.2 L torque , many tracks have rises and or hills a spun out vette can hide behind , invisible to the traffic that follows.
Very glad you're ok. Painful to watch your video of the hit.
Caution is good, though I don't really see anything you could have done to avoid getting hit (nor am I convinced that you owed the Mustang a point-by). As discussed in this thread, the track layout enables this type of side impact at high speed, though fortunately that's an uncommon event (not much consolation for you).
To reduce the risk of injury, a roll bar and especially roll cage provides some protection for this type of impact, as well as a seat with good restraints and halos (not many DE cars have good halos, and not even all club racing cars do). Maybe some airbag systems provide meaningful head/neck protection for side impact, but I haven't run across good data on that for the track context. We should all remember that head/neck restraint devices like the HANS provide only limited protection for a side impact.
If you're comfortable sharing with us, did the Mustang driver reach out to offer an apology, help with repair costs, etc.?
I had him in my view the entire time. I was gaining ground at all the technical sections of the track so not really worthy of a point. He was closing under braking, up the esses and at the end of straights. Technically the 350r is the faster car. I have no problem giving other drivers points (pretty much just chilling these days) and have been on track with some of the people posting in this thread. What's upsetting to me is how red misted he became. You can just see it building with each lap. He was too late on the brakes going into t14 in prior laps and yet he still decides to push harder...... At one point he was so early up the esses that I think he left the ground and almost drove off LOL.
Once again my lesson is to simply point a driver by who runs up my *** under braking. Not everyone in advanced driving is capable of handling these crazy high HP cars.
The mustang driver did not apologize or reach out to me. I had to reach out to him. His attitude is shockingly disappointing in all respects. He is just troubled that I don't have insurance hehe.
Anyway thank you all for the support.
I hope my car still drives well and I can get back on track soon.
He is just troubled that I don't have insurance hehe.
SMH. Like that would make it all better? Moron probably hasn't thought about the possibility of killing or maiming someone. With this guy's attitude, the local track orgs need to blacklist him. I know I wouldn't want to share a track with him.
Just to expand a bit, there is a little bit of "there but the grace of God go me" in this incident in the sense of making a driving mistake and hitting another car. The problem here is all about attitude and responsibility. This guy posted the session and lied his *** off about how it ended. There is no way that kind of "mistake" is going to happen to me and I suspect most of us.
07-23-2019, 12:01 PM
Then repeat... 
At one point he was so early up the esses that I think he left the ground and almost drove off LOL.