CCA

Seems like the Youtube post was taken down.

ohenryinatlanta

thats a nasty hit

fatbillybob

One of several reasons why I posted in the Chin thread not liking the checkout ride concept. But people in that thread defend the concept. If there was a checkout here it failed. That was a pretty bad wreck that could have ended much much worse.

DTMiller

This is sort of leading to the famous commentary about the American experiment; it's the worst system ever developed, except for all the others.

Veloce Raptor

Agreed. I have zero sympathy for him. He also claimed his day ended due to a black flag??? Um, no, asswipe, it's because you nearly killed someone

fatbillybob

Considering the set-up for the crash there was not much that would have changed the outcome. But it is possible that another factor might have contributed so it might have been nice to hear what the mustang driver had to say. I have only raced VIR once so my total time on that track is less than 2 hrs. several years ago. But, I seem to remember that the braking zone area there had sort of an up and down pitch to it and some bumpiness that braking that deep sets streetcar based ABS a wild if one is a brake stabber. A resulting ABS "ice" mode just makes the mustang driver loos control earlier. A 1/2 a second might have converted an incident to a near miss. I have noticed that when people experience ice mode in ABS streetcars they often are pushing hard and that seems to quicken inputs including the tendency to lightswitch the brakes which is a disaster if you confuse your ABS on bumppy pavement. I have even had that happen to me and it cost me 4 new hoosiers as I flew off the track into the dessert in California. That one incident for me really made me work on improving my braking for the sake of my wallet.

StoogeMoe

It would be interesting if all your comments would have been different if the victim car was another Mustang instead of a GT3...

TXE36

IMHO, bringing up ice mode is a good point as it has caught a good many drivers by surprise including the one that used to drive my car. However, I don't think this is ice mode here. If one examines the video:

1) The brake indicator in the speedometer overlay appears to just be the brake light, so it can be used to see if his foot is on the pedal. I don't think ice mode disables the brake light.
2) From the brake indicator and the engine sound, he is off throttle and braking at the "3" marker on the prior lap and at the "2" marker on the final lap.
3) In both cases, when he is on the brakes, indicated by the brake indicator and engine sound, and on the pavement, the actual braking effort is obvious in the speedometer display.

There is absolutely no indication he was applying brakes and not getting proper braking effort. There is every indication he was way late on the brakes and fixating on the GT3 - he quite literally scored a direct hit like he was aiming for him. The fixation prevented the possibility of avoiding the GT3 by going in front or behind him by altering trajectory after realizing he wasn't going make the turn.

-Mike

RSA964993

I know when I’m at VIR deep into a session that I start to back up my brake point because the brakes are hotter and seem to have less bite than earlier in the session/race. I know as a DE or race goes on I don’t move my brake point further into the zone which seems to be the case here. I think some red mist was at play and he must have had his sights on getting by without sticking to the discipline of remembering where his point of no return brake marker was on the back straight. It looks like he blew right through it with major consequences. Unfortunate for both and glad no serious injuries occurred.

mhm993

Bad enough that he drove that way, but only a few dozen participants were aware. Posting the video—it speaks for itself— made him a fair target for public shaming.

Just saying.

ProCoach

I can assure you, having worked with multiple National Champions and pros at this track, in street cars and race cars equipped with street and race ABS, having more than eight terabytes of video and data from every range of driver and lap times from 2:40 down to 1:35, as well as personally having driven over 15,000 miles on that track since November of 1999, that there is NO surface irregularity at that point on the circuit that might trigger any sort of ABS event INDEPENDENT of the driver.

The BOTTOM of a steep rise is when the driver's right shoulder is even with the "2" marker. From there to the mid point of the curb on the left, it's pretty steeply uphill. There's nearly 450 feet from that initial point to the middle of the curb and there is nearly 350 feet between the middle of that curb and even an early turn-in to the right.

If you can't get rid of 100 mph in that period of time, over that total difference and where the first half is so uphill that you can add 20-25% to the potential deceleration rate (due to compression) over the first half of it, you're NOT DOING IT RIGHT!

Also, the comparison video is very telling. Other than initiating braking deeper, the delay or lag between initial brake application and peak deceleration is noticeably longer than on the "reference" lap. Pure driver error here...

GPA951s

I don't think it would be any different considering the seriousness of this incident... Doesn't matter what car he hit... After his "Comments" and actually posting the vid, and in my opinion not taking a DE seriously, Shorts, the 80's Nylon "JT" BMX Gloves, short sleeves, a Sub-par seat install... and more cameras than Spielberg... Part of this sport is learning from your mistakes and admitting that you made one, I don't get the feeling that he even thinks he made a mistake? And that translates to not learning.. Red Mist is a very real hazard....

RichFL

I run with Chin quite often and believe they do a good job and better than some other organizers at promoting safety. I also agree with whoever said that a check out ride is simply a point in time evaluation of a drivers ability and common sense. There is no way of knowing how a driver will react in every situation and I don't believe that this unfortunate event should be attributed to what Chin did or didn't do.

Thundermoose

I think you're spot on with respect to target fixation. This turn is a little button hook. The last brake marker is literally an arrow pointing to the left. Go left man!

There's a possibility that had Mustang driver just started to turn left even while standing on his brakes, that not only would he have avoided the GT3, but he would've been able to continue to slow down and stay on track.

Instead, he looked where he didn't want to go and went there instead.

zip465

Holy $hit! Jazz hands anyone...