Nice WGI baseline lap
06-06-2019, 09:36 AM
#17
The biggest difference between the line I use and Leh's line is the entrance to the toe. I wait until the track starts to elevate before turn-in and try to run a constant arc until apex. Leh seems to dive in early and run a tight arc until apex. Any comments from the Pros?
06-06-2019, 09:43 AM
#18
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Originally Posted by Bill Lehman
The biggest difference between the line I use and Leh's line is the entrance to the toe. I wait until the track starts to elevate before turn-in and try to run a constant arc until apex. Leh seems to dive in early and run a tight arc until apex. Any comments from the Pros?
06-06-2019, 09:48 AM
#19
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The biggest difference between the line I use and Leh's line is the entrance to the toe. I wait until the track starts to elevate before turn-in and try to run a constant arc until apex. Leh seems to dive in early and run a tight arc until apex. Any comments from the Pros?
It's the first thing I noticed when watching the video. It is an interesting take on the Toe for sure.
Seeing as that Toe turn in has always felt "odd" to me, I will try the line that Leh is using.
Diving in early and holding the curbing until track out might be worth a look-see (safely of course).
06-06-2019, 09:49 AM
#20
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It also shaves off a number of feet of real estate with no detriment
06-06-2019, 09:55 AM
#22
Hard to see the bus stop here as we were 3 wide but you can see the straight approach into the toe
06-06-2019, 09:57 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by dgrobs
Noticed that as well. He's basically cutting out the entire outside of the toe.
I don't go all the way out regardless, but I do go a lot further out than Leh.
I don't go all the way out regardless, but I do go a lot further out than Leh.
In this case, he is utilizing topography to his advantage, much like we have been discussing recently in the Ask the Coach thread
06-06-2019, 09:58 AM
#24
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Yes that's the fastest and most stable way into the Bus Stop for sure! That's what I always advocate to clients
06-06-2019, 10:12 AM
#25
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I see many different lines in the toe from various drivers, but I guess it's always good to experiment (safely), and Leh's line (and Paul's as well in his video above) are giving me a couple different lines to try on my next trip to Watkins.
Thanks both. Good stuff....
06-06-2019, 10:28 AM
#26
Yeah, I see that. Topographical advantage for sure. Just never dawned on me to turn in so much earlier with such a clean result.
I see many different lines in the toe from various drivers, but I guess it's always good to experiment (safely), and Leh's line (and Paul's as well in his video above) are giving me a couple different lines to try on my next trip to Watkins.
Thanks both. Good stuff....
I see many different lines in the toe from various drivers, but I guess it's always good to experiment (safely), and Leh's line (and Paul's as well in his video above) are giving me a couple different lines to try on my next trip to Watkins.
Thanks both. Good stuff....
Notice how parallel to the wall at the top of the esses the car is, and it's flat from turn 1 apex to the bus stop, the entry to the bus stop carries so much through the first apex I can't even get to 3rd apex but I am already flat before I pass the 3rd and flat over the 4th. Then I carry so much scrub into the toe I actually can't get all the way back to inside curbing which I am ok with. I bobble in 10 but then the brake is a qucik firm brush through 11 so I make it up... It's not a perfect lap by any means, I am still overslowing which causes me to be back to throttle a few feet early in a number of spots but a good reference for your car...
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06-06-2019, 10:51 AM
#27
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Not that I would EVER compare my lap to Leh's LOL but here is a good reference lap in the dry in a car similarly powered to yours... I am 305HP, 3,160 pounds...
Notice how parallel to the wall at the top of the esses the car is, and it's flat from turn 1 apex to the bus stop, the entry to the bus stop carries so much through the first apex I can't even get to 3rd apex but I am already flat before I pass the 3rd and flat over the 4th. Then I carry so much scrub into the toe I actually can't get all the way back to inside curbing which I am ok with. I bobble in 10 but then the brake is a qucik firm brush through 11 so I make it up... It's not a perfect lap by any means, I am still overslowing which causes me to be back to throttle a few feet early in a number of spots but a good reference for your car...
https://youtu.be/C8D5XC93uOU
Notice how parallel to the wall at the top of the esses the car is, and it's flat from turn 1 apex to the bus stop, the entry to the bus stop carries so much through the first apex I can't even get to 3rd apex but I am already flat before I pass the 3rd and flat over the 4th. Then I carry so much scrub into the toe I actually can't get all the way back to inside curbing which I am ok with. I bobble in 10 but then the brake is a qucik firm brush through 11 so I make it up... It's not a perfect lap by any means, I am still overslowing which causes me to be back to throttle a few feet early in a number of spots but a good reference for your car...
https://youtu.be/C8D5XC93uOU
If you notice the 2 cars in front of you at turn in for the toe, those 2 cars are taking the line I usually take. Read: not diving in so early and getting back to power in a straight line through the apex.
Your line (and Leh's) come in MUCH earlier at turn in and you guys are holding the curbing, basically making the toe one long apex as opposed to driving through the apex like the cars in front of you.
Like I said, you have given me something new to try and the data will show me yay or nay on the different line for me and my car. Keep in mind my track skills are nowhere near yours and most likely never will be. I'm gonna try it for sure. Thanks for that.
One other thing I do, that maybe you could throw me some advice on, is crossing back left in the middle ess (3) to the apex on the left.
When transitioning back to the left there, I have always felt a little "crown" at mid track during that transition left.
I find myself giving a very slight lift there mid track to settle the car and immediately get back to full power to apex 3 on the left.
You said you are flat out through the esses where I am giving a slight (very slight) lift mid track between 2 and 3 as I am feeling a slight crown mid track.
Is that crown a figment of my imagination or is there really a small crown there mid track.
The lift is very slight and not "really" noticeable while driving, but I know I am lifting there (very slightly) where you are flat out.
Do I not need to give that very slight lift there (between end of T-2 and apex at T-3 while transitioning left?
Am I explaining the crown correctly? Is it not there at all or is it there and causing me to lift slightly mid track to settle the car?
Thanks....
06-06-2019, 10:57 AM
#28
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If you ever get a chance to do a track walk there conducted by a pro, do it. I have led dozens at the Glen and it's eye opening what you'll learn, including about the Esses.
Walking any and every track you can WILL make you a better driver.
Walking any and every track you can WILL make you a better driver.
06-06-2019, 10:57 AM
#29
Very good Paul.
If you notice the 2 cars in front of you at turn in for the toe, those 2 cars are taking the line I usually take. Read: not diving in so early and getting back to power in a straight line through the apex.
Your line (and Leh's) come in MUCH earlier at turn in and you guys are holding the curbing, basically making the toe one long apex as opposed to driving through the apex like the cars in front of you.
Like I said, you have given me something new to try and the data will show me yay or nay on the different line for me and my car. Keep in mind my track skills are nowhere near yours and most likely never will be. I'm gonna try it for sure. Thanks for that.
One other thing I do, that maybe you could throw me some advice on, is crossing back left in the middle ess (3) to the apex on the left.
When transitioning back to the left there, I have always felt a little "crown" at mid track during that transition left.
I find myself giving a very slight lift there mid track to settle the car and immediately get back to full power to apex 3 on the left.
You said you are flat out through the esses where I am giving a slight (very slight) lift mid track between 2 and 3 as I am feeling a slight crown mid track.
Is that crown a figment of my imagination or is there really a small crown there mid track.
The lift is very slight and not "really" noticeable while driving, but I know I am lifting there (very slightly) where you are flat out.
Do I not need to give that very slight lift there (between end of T-2 and apex at T-3 while transitioning left?
Am I explaining the crown correctly? Is it not there at all or is it there and causing me to lift slightly mid track to settle the car?
Thanks....
If you notice the 2 cars in front of you at turn in for the toe, those 2 cars are taking the line I usually take. Read: not diving in so early and getting back to power in a straight line through the apex.
Your line (and Leh's) come in MUCH earlier at turn in and you guys are holding the curbing, basically making the toe one long apex as opposed to driving through the apex like the cars in front of you.
Like I said, you have given me something new to try and the data will show me yay or nay on the different line for me and my car. Keep in mind my track skills are nowhere near yours and most likely never will be. I'm gonna try it for sure. Thanks for that.
One other thing I do, that maybe you could throw me some advice on, is crossing back left in the middle ess (3) to the apex on the left.
When transitioning back to the left there, I have always felt a little "crown" at mid track during that transition left.
I find myself giving a very slight lift there mid track to settle the car and immediately get back to full power to apex 3 on the left.
You said you are flat out through the esses where I am giving a slight (very slight) lift mid track between 2 and 3 as I am feeling a slight crown mid track.
Is that crown a figment of my imagination or is there really a small crown there mid track.
The lift is very slight and not "really" noticeable while driving, but I know I am lifting there (very slightly) where you are flat out.
Do I not need to give that very slight lift there (between end of T-2 and apex at T-3 while transitioning left?
Am I explaining the crown correctly? Is it not there at all or is it there and causing me to lift slightly mid track to settle the car?
Thanks....
Rather than working on going flat work on being very deliberate with your inputs there. Don't react to the crown but pro-actively make it part of your car positioning. Once you get your positioning deliberate and precise everytime you won't feel the need to lift as you realize how much track is left. But rather than work on just going flat maybe also try the breathe in a different spot... Do you breathe into 2 or flat out? Sometimes a breathe at the entry to 2 slows the car enough you don't feel the need to lift in the esses. Bottom line is the most important thing is to be comfortable, confident and consistent first... Finally, don't diminish your own skills, we all started somewhere, Heck I even thought I knew what I was doing when I got started, it's taken me years to realize how much I don't know and I still learn every time I am on track! You are so committed to seat time that a good coach would really be beneficial to you!! You're doing awesome!
Also remember we dial that crown out as much as possible with car setup...
06-06-2019, 11:30 AM
#30
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You are spot on and it's great you are feeling that and adjusting accordingly. I used to do the exact same thing. Then I had it pointed out how much track was left at the end of the esses where my car is parallel to the wall that I was never using. It is pretty intimidating after all.
Rather than working on going flat work on being very deliberate with your inputs there. Don't react to the crown but pro-actively make it part of your car positioning. Once you get your positioning deliberate and precise everytime you won't feel the need to lift as you realize how much track is left. But rather than work on just going flat maybe also try the breathe in a different spot... Do you breathe into 2 or flat out? Sometimes a breathe at the entry to 2 slows the car enough you don't feel the need to lift in the esses. Bottom line is the most important thing is to be comfortable, confident and consistent first... Finally, don't diminish your own skills, we all started somewhere, Heck I even thought I knew what I was doing when I got started, it's taken me years to realize how much I don't know and I still learn every time I am on track! You are so committed to seat time that a good coach would really be beneficial to you!! You're doing awesome!
Also remember we dial that crown out as much as possible with car setup...
Rather than working on going flat work on being very deliberate with your inputs there. Don't react to the crown but pro-actively make it part of your car positioning. Once you get your positioning deliberate and precise everytime you won't feel the need to lift as you realize how much track is left. But rather than work on just going flat maybe also try the breathe in a different spot... Do you breathe into 2 or flat out? Sometimes a breathe at the entry to 2 slows the car enough you don't feel the need to lift in the esses. Bottom line is the most important thing is to be comfortable, confident and consistent first... Finally, don't diminish your own skills, we all started somewhere, Heck I even thought I knew what I was doing when I got started, it's taken me years to realize how much I don't know and I still learn every time I am on track! You are so committed to seat time that a good coach would really be beneficial to you!! You're doing awesome!
Also remember we dial that crown out as much as possible with car setup...
Good advice for sure Paul. I'll work on it.
As to your other question, yes, I used to lift going into 2 but not any more. I'm pretty much full throttle from the track out of 1 all the way to 5 with only that slight lift at the crown in 3 mid track.
Haven't lifted going into 2 for a while now. Got over that quickly when an instructor pointed it out to me. He told me to cheat in to the right a bit earlier and don't lift before 2, and it's been that way ever since. The power of coaching rearing its head.
Something about that crown mid track between 2 and 3 though. It is causing me to lift still. Just a very slight lift, but a lift nonetheless. I will work on it. Would love to stay at full power from 1 to 5 like you guys do, but that damn crown. It's there. I feel it. My sense of self preservation kicks in and then the slight lift, then back to full throttle.
I will work on it (not lifting there). Yes, there is a lot of track, but I feel that crown right under my butt and I am lifting slightly to settle the car. Habitually, so I need to break that bad habit. I just feel safer with that very slight lift. I suck.
Something to work on for sure. Thanks....