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Old 05-27-2019, 12:29 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by zedcat View Post
I've asked that question more than once at COTA drivers meetings because it does vary.
Seriously? I donít mean that in a dismissive way just really surprised. In my limited experience with about ten orgs red is always a safe and controlled stop with view of a corner station offline.
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Old 05-27-2019, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jdistefa View Post
Talking and sort of listening is a crappy way to learn something that is a visual cue seen under some degree of stress.

If we collectively actually cared about this topic (as we seem to agree re. safety) then flag drills should be run at every event.

Best to learn, review, execute with simulation rather than blah blah blah that apparently few people listen to.
Agreed. First session out today I gave a point by as I saw a yellow. Viper blew by about 40mph faster the next second... I was in my checkout ride so the car was noted as passing under yellow.
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Old 05-27-2019, 12:48 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by bcp2011 View Post
Seriously? I donít mean that in a dismissive way just really surprised. In my limited experience with about ten orgs red is always a safe and controlled stop with view of a corner station offline.
Yes, my first event at COTA was with a group that used the FIA rule. Since then I always made a point to be sure I knew which rule was in effect. Most times it's covered in the drivers meeting. But if not, I ask.

To be honest I prefer the FIA rule. Being stopped on a track I feel like a sitting duck. Have had two near misses due to drivers not seeing the red and flying past my stopped car.
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Old 05-27-2019, 01:02 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by jdistefa
Talking and sort of listening is a crappy way to learn something that is a visual cue seen under some degree of stress.

If we collectively actually cared about this topic (as we seem to agree re. safety) then flag drills should be run at every event.

Best to learn, review, execute with simulation rather than blah blah blah that apparently few people listen to.
Spot on

Regarding COTA, they are unique in the US. They run on FIA rules which means red flag equates to black flag all. Some events they run use this approach. PCA and a few other groups overrule this and use the more common US meaning of red.
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Old 05-27-2019, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by zedcat View Post
To be honest I prefer the FIA rule. Being stopped on a track I feel like a sitting duck. Have had two near misses due to drivers not seeing the red and flying past my stopped car.
I usually run with NASA and starting in group 2 (out of 4) they run live flag drills with red and black flags. Anyone not seeing them will have a conversation and not be allowed to progress if they intend to do that during that weekend. So I think the solution is to help drill it in, no pun intended.

Second, sometimes you really need to stop. There was a 7 car incident this past weekend at mid o where a driver spun in thunder valley in a race. Thatís a blind downhill corner so if youíre going into it not expecting to stop very quickly itíll be ugly.
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Old 05-27-2019, 01:35 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by bcp2011
Live blogging from a chin event. Drivers meeting did not cover flags.
All of the PCA DE events with my local region (Allegheny) cover the flags and their functions at the drivers meeting.
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Old 05-27-2019, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bcp2011
Live blogging from a chin event. Drivers meeting did not cover flags...
Just FYI: The standard Chin drivers meeting format is to have one large group meeting and then split into 4 groups: novice, intermediate, advanced and instructors groups. The flags are always covered in the novice group meeting.
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Old 05-27-2019, 07:42 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Dr911
Just FYI: The standard Chin drivers meeting format is to have one large group meeting and then split into 4 groups: novice, intermediate, advanced and instructors groups. The flags are always covered in the novice group meeting.
Perhaps that's the point--only in the novice group meeting and not in any of the more advanced groups...because it's presumed to be known. Bad presumption. As another poster wrote, several of the flags rarely come out, thus making it easier to not remember, particularly under pressure.
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Old 05-27-2019, 10:29 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by bcp2011
I usually run with NASA and starting in group 2 (out of 4) they run live flag drills with red and black flags. Anyone not seeing them will have a conversation and not be allowed to progress if they intend to do that during that weekend. So I think the solution is to help drill it in, no pun intended.

Second, sometimes you really need to stop. There was a 7 car incident this past weekend at mid o where a driver spun in thunder valley in a race. Thatís a blind downhill corner so if youíre going into it not expecting to stop very quickly itíll be ugly.

Not sure if this will go through
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Old 05-27-2019, 10:49 PM
  #55  
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I ran this weekend with OnGrid.

They have some pretty good rules.

Among them;

Passing under yellow earns you a black flag.

Spin or get two wheels off under yellow earns black flag

Two off track events in one session you are off track for one session earns two black flags

Three black flags during the event you are done for the day

Surprised at how many earn the three black flag award
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Old 05-28-2019, 01:05 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by HelpMeHelpU View Post
Perhaps that's the point--only in the novice group meeting and not in any of the more advanced groups...because it's presumed to be known. Bad presumption. As another poster wrote, several of the flags rarely come out, thus making it easier to not remember, particularly under pressure.
Yes, that's the point. Especially in groups like Chin where the closing speeds are pretty insane it's easy to miss a flag if you're not paying 100% attention. In intermediate today there was a stockish Miata and a Ferrari 458 race car of some sort, along with a bunch of GT3 RSs, Vettes, etc. on R7s.
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Old 05-28-2019, 04:31 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by bcp2011 View Post
Agreed. First session out today I gave a point by as I saw a yellow. Viper blew by about 40mph faster the next second... I was in my checkout ride so the car was noted as passing under yellow.
Why would you give a point by to pass when there was no passing allowed (under yellow)?
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Old 05-28-2019, 09:15 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Gary R. View Post
Why would you give a point by to pass when there was no passing allowed (under yellow)?
Arm was already out as I saw the sign.
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Old 05-28-2019, 11:19 AM
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PLNewman - sounds like you really get the best students. Wow.
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Old 05-28-2019, 01:26 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Gary R. View Post
Why would you give a point by to pass when there was no passing allowed (under yellow)?
Further more on Gary's question. If you see a yellow flag do a service to those behind you to alert them as best as you can. (slow down predictably ). You could just as easily be the car behind and not able to see the flag come out as soon as the leading car should. DE is a great place to practice this. BTW, as far as understanding track rules. I was at a Lemons Race several years ago and standing next to a race official when a call came over race control for a racer that was black flagged. The flag station who pointed the flag at the car first described the incident. "Okay, I have a car that just left the track and is now stopped. Driver has exited the car and walking towards me. " Flagger then talks to the driver in the background of the radio. "NO! , you don't report to me , go into the pits and report to the BLACK FLAG STATION!" Imagine how dangerous that could have been . Lack of experience or knowledge is very dangerous on a race track.
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