Notices
Racing & Drivers Education Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

This ACTUALLY Happened

 
Old 05-26-2019, 12:55 PM
  #31  
ProCoach
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Small Business Partner

 
ProCoach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Durham, NC and Virginia International Raceway
Posts: 12,626
Received 46 Likes on 36 Posts
Default

Yesterday, at the FSR-PCA drivers meeting (and I think FSR-PCA is VERY good, comparatively, an excellent culture), they asked if anyone had NOT been at the drivers meeting Friday. Two people raised their hands, so they said, we're going to give the COMPLETE and comprehensive flag talk.

Someone behind me swore under their breath...

You know, until the mindset evident behind me gets fixed, we're going to continue with issues of flag awareness, appropriate response and compliance in all groups and organizations. A damned shame.

Sure, we've all heard it. You know what? We can stand to hear it again. Until there is full compliance, we can ALWAYS afford the time to hear it again.

Maybe the heat's getting to me, but I have less patience for this than I used to.
__________________
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Professional, Private Driver Performance Analysis
Authorized Sales and Support for AiM Sports, VBOX Video, MoTeC, AutoSport Labs, RaceVoice LLC, Apex Pro and Cosworth Electronics
ProCoach is offline  
Old 05-26-2019, 01:22 PM
  #32  
BFT3.2
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
BFT3.2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: 10 mins from Lime Rock
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 1 Post
Default

Last week at the Glen during the Zone 1 three day DE they gave a very good driver's meeting with full explanations of the flags along with what to do and NOT to do when seeing them. Afterwards, my buddies girlfriend who wasn't driving says "wow.. that's a lot of stuff to remember when your going 125.." and she's right. After four years and 36 days on track I still listen closely to every word they have to say. Let it be pounded over and over in to your head.

In heated cat n mouses with a friend or nemesis you're chasing on track when your laser focusing on them I constantly say "look at the flag station, look at the flag station".
BFT3.2 is offline  
Old 05-26-2019, 01:44 PM
  #33  
lmnsblu355
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
lmnsblu355's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NY metro
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

My first time with Chin was at VIR this past March. Before my checkout ride, I had to complete an online flag test. It took about 1 minute.

At the time I thought it was silly. Of course I know the flags. But now I understand the purpose.

Maybe this should be mandatory before solo signoff with all groups.
lmnsblu355 is offline  
Old 05-26-2019, 03:09 PM
  #34  
CCA
User
 
CCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 856
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ProCoach View Post
Yesterday, at the FSR-PCA drivers meeting (and I think FSR-PCA is VERY good, comparatively, an excellent culture), they asked if anyone had NOT been at the drivers meeting Friday. Two people raised their hands, so they said, we're going to give the COMPLETE and comprehensive flag talk.

Someone behind me swore under their breath...

You know, until the mindset evident behind me gets fixed, we're going to continue with issues of flag awareness, appropriate response and compliance in all groups and organizations. A damned shame.

Sure, we've all heard it. You know what? We can stand to hear it again. Until there is full compliance, we can ALWAYS afford the time to hear it again.

Maybe the heat's getting to me, but I have less patience for this than I used to.
Absolutely, even with over a decade of doing this I still review the flags and SCCA GCR each season. I want to program in the on track procedures, so the appropriate response is automatic. At a DE, folks see the Green, Yellow, Blue/Yellow (passing), Black (All) and Checkered flags fairly frequently. But, the Yellow/Red stripped, Meat-ball, White and thankfully Red are not often displayed and a paused or wrong response to these can be catastrophic.

Yep, poor attitudes are too often displayed by too many at the track. I know, peoples' time is tight in the morning, but keeping yourself and other safe and your property is worth it. This is probably the same mentality possessed by those that run red lights on the street. Folks think that until that light IS red they can continue on. However, the yellow actually means "prepare to be stopped." And, how do prepare to be stopped? By applying the brakes. I don't know how many times I've had the lights turn green and sat there, while 1-2-3-4 cars continue through an intersection. Ridiculous! I also, recall a driver's meeting at a race, where a driver was arguing with SOM about the the Purple-35 instituted at VIR. If you are getting "red-mist" with the SOM over a flagging procedure,I personally don't want you on the track with me. I don't know how you screen or educate out poor attitudes, but wish we could.
CCA is offline  
Old 05-26-2019, 03:15 PM
  #35  
TXE36
Super User
 
TXE36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: TX
Posts: 2,381
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by ProCoach View Post
Yesterday, at the FSR-PCA drivers meeting (and I think FSR-PCA is VERY good, comparatively, an excellent culture), they asked if anyone had NOT been at the drivers meeting Friday. Two people raised their hands, so they said, we're going to give the COMPLETE and comprehensive flag talk.

Someone behind me swore under their breath...

You know, until the mindset evident behind me gets fixed, we're going to continue with issues of flag awareness, appropriate response and compliance in all groups and organizations. A damned shame.

Sure, we've all heard it. You know what? We can stand to hear it again. Until there is full compliance, we can ALWAYS afford the time to hear it again.

Maybe the heat's getting to me, but I have less patience for this than I used to.
I think some of the impatience is driven by ignorance that not all tracks/organizations use the same flags. If one does not go to a geographically diverse number of tracks (I'm one of these people) then a mindset can set in that it's all the same everywhere. Specifically teaching this situation could help along the lines of "I know a lot of the locals know this, but this is how we will be doing flags this weekend..." during the driver's meeting plus a specific bullet item in the classroom.

Another angle is perhaps standardizing the flags across the country. Perhaps naive, but how hard could that be? It's not like there are a lot of them (locally we use 10 aspects).

-Mike
TXE36 is offline  
Old 05-26-2019, 05:01 PM
  #36  
911Königin
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
911Königin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pothole City
Posts: 13,635
Received 12 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by PLNewman View Post
At VIR with FSR on Friday. I had a student in Blue Group who was Solo rated by MOR at Mid-Ohio but was new to VIR. The assumption was that he would get quickly up to speed and could get signed off solo at VIR. In the day’s third session, as we approached the climbing uphill esses, a waving White flag was thrown. Assuming the student had not seen it, I asked, “What’s a Waving White?” Without hesitation, he braked hard and came to a full stop in the esses within view of the flag station. How I am alive today, I do not know.
OUCH!!!

Was talking to an instructor who had a green/beginner student ~ student came to a complete stop, on track, in a blind corner, because he had traffic behind him.
911Königin is offline  
Old 05-26-2019, 11:11 PM
  #37  
Matt Romanowski
Rennlist Hoonigan
which cost no drachmas
Lifetime Rennlist
Member


Rennlist
Site Sponsor
 
Matt Romanowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 9,693
Received 9 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

Who remembers the gym teacher (head flagger) giving the flag talks at Pocono. He used to be there for all the Metro events. His flag talk was awesome!
Matt Romanowski is offline  
Old 05-26-2019, 11:37 PM
  #38  
jdistefa
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
jdistefa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Onterrible
Posts: 7,049
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Coach Hines?

jdistefa is offline  
Old 05-27-2019, 07:20 AM
  #39  
Gary R.
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Gary R.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Valencia, Spain
Posts: 15,001
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ProCoach View Post
Maybe the heat's getting to me, but I have less patience for this than I used to.
Not the heat Peter, you're just getting old....
Gary R. is offline  
Old 05-27-2019, 08:14 AM
  #40  
177mph
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
177mph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,253
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by ProCoach View Post
Yesterday, at the FSR-PCA drivers meeting (and I think FSR-PCA is VERY good, comparatively, an excellent culture), they asked if anyone had NOT been at the drivers meeting Friday. Two people raised their hands, so they said, we're going to give the COMPLETE and comprehensive flag talk.

Someone behind me swore under their breath...

You know, until the mindset evident behind me gets fixed, we're going to continue with issues of flag awareness, appropriate response and compliance in all groups and organizations. A damned shame.

Sure, we've all heard it. You know what? We can stand to hear it again. Until there is full compliance, we can ALWAYS afford the time to hear it again.

Maybe the heat's getting to me, but I have less patience for this than I used to.
I've seen many drivers meetings where participants are having full on conversations during the meeting. This goes both ways as Ive also seen lots of drivers meetings where the chief instructor running the meeting is waxing on about personal stories and funny anecdotes from the night before. Missing flags and not knowing what they mean is truly dangerous for everyone.
177mph is offline  
Old 05-27-2019, 09:54 AM
  #41  
bcp2011
User
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 33
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Live blogging from a chin event. Drivers meeting did not cover flags. Group meeting same thing except some guy asked if a red is thrown whether he should stop or go to the pits. This is in intermediate with a Maclaren and other expensive cars...
bcp2011 is offline  
Old 05-27-2019, 10:34 AM
  #42  
Matt Romanowski
Rennlist Hoonigan
which cost no drachmas
Lifetime Rennlist
Member


Rennlist
Site Sponsor
 
Matt Romanowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 9,693
Received 9 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by bcp2011 View Post
Live blogging from a chin event. Drivers meeting did not cover flags. Group meeting same thing except some guy asked if a red is thrown whether he should stop or go to the pits. This is in intermediate with a Maclaren and other expensive cars...
Red to the pits is FIA flagging. While not as common in the US, it is used at some events.

I'm surprised they didn't cover flags in the general meeting.
Matt Romanowski is offline  
Old 05-27-2019, 10:41 AM
  #43  
HelpMeHelpU
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
HelpMeHelpU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,107
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by bcp2011
Live blogging from a chin event. Drivers meeting did not cover flags. Group meeting same thing except some guy asked if a red is thrown whether he should stop or go to the pits. This is in intermediate with a Maclaren and other expensive cars...
Originally Posted by Matt Romanowski
Red to the pits is FIA flagging. While not as common in the US, it is used at some events.

I'm surprised they didn't cover flags in the general meeting.
Not to pick on Chin, because they don't have a monopoly on this phenomenon, but arguably there is NOTHING more important to cover at a drivers' meeting than what actions to take upon seeing the different flags.

There's also nothing that could be repeated and quizzed more frequently than actions to take with various flags.
HelpMeHelpU is offline  
Old 05-27-2019, 10:45 AM
  #44  
jdistefa
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
jdistefa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Onterrible
Posts: 7,049
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Talking and sort of listening is a crappy way to learn something that is a visual cue seen under some degree of stress.

If we collectively actually cared about this topic (as we seem to agree re. safety) then flag drills should be run at every event.

Best to learn, review, execute with simulation rather than blah blah blah that apparently few people listen to.
jdistefa is offline  
Old 05-27-2019, 10:47 AM
  #45  
zedcat
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
zedcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,434
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by bcp2011 View Post
Live blogging from a chin event. Drivers meeting did not cover flags. Group meeting same thing except some guy asked if a red is thrown whether he should stop or go to the pits. This is in intermediate with a Maclaren and other expensive cars...
I've asked that question more than once at COTA drivers meetings because it does vary.
zedcat is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - About Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: