95spiderman

anyone here have level 2 certification? ive been bmwcca national hpde instructor for 3 years and just took the msf level 1 online course. i assumed i would then be level 2 certified from the previous bmw course. but now theyre saying they dont know what will or will not be accepted. seems unreasonable to expect me to take another instructor course for msf. nothing wrong with more learning but still. anyone know whats up? thx

PLNewman

This thing is a well-intentioned but unmitigated scam. Worthless.

95spiderman

scam? theyre just taking your $50 for a photo id? hope not

DTMiller

I've been on the mentor side of the level 2 training and it was very robust. The role-playing scenarios are complicated and extensively correlated with expected ranges of students.

There's several hours of classroom work and several hours of on track role playing involved in the training. (I haven't done a BMW or PCA instructors clinic so I can't compare)

There is a vocal group who think it is a bad thing. They might even be right! But having been involved with it and seeing first hand what was involved, I would heartily recommend a level 2 course to someone who has the opportunity to take their first instructor course with one with the caveat that someone who doesn't currently instruct will learn a lot but will struggle with some of the scenarios. Many of the scenarios have subtle errors that someone new (and some experienced instructors -- ask me how I know) will have trouble identifying and fixing.

​​​​​​Whether it's right for you will depend heavily on your personality. As with most things, it's the A students who end up doing the extra credit assignment.

​

ExMB

Read the previous thread posted in here. As a level one you get to pay yearly dues but nothing else. You can talk the talk but are not allowed to instruct a student on track. Even had one of their mucky'd'mucks do a drive by post on here with empty promises and no further responses.

https://www.motorsport-safety.org/initiatives/certified

95spiderman

where is the level 2 training? i havent seen anything for that

TXE36

Very skeptical - seems like rent seeking to me.

-Mike

DTMiller

Level 2 is conducted by organizations whose training program has been accredited by MSF. Chin, Hooked on Driving, several other groups have been accredited. Not all groups have found getting accredited worthwhile.

CDinSing

Blue Chip

I have my Level II as our local PCA chapter is accredited by MSF. It does provide some uniformity to the program, as a whole IMO. There are clubs that don't recognize qualifications as instructor - meaning, Chin may not 'automatically' accept PCA instructors as their own - however, my understanding is that the MSF accreditation provides that continuity.

PLNewman

The Level 1 online test is beautifully executed and really forces you to think. The membership lanyard/badge looks great (although I would never have occasion to wear it in public). Beyond that, the program offers little of substance. I was a mentor in the first year of Level 2 instruction for Chin. The instructor candidates universally failed to recognize and correct egregious student driver errors (missed apexes, early braking, multiple steering inputs in a turn, poor traffic management, failure to follow instruction). Yet, when it came time to discuss and evaluate their performance, all (or most of) the candidates were accepted and promoted. I can't speak for similar results with other clubs, but it was clear that Chin needed to fill instructor seats and had a very low bar set for acceptance. The Level 2 weekend also provided Chin with a profit opportunity, something they rarely miss.

MSF accreditation is not widely accepted. In fact, very few PCA chapters will recognize it when considering out-of-region instructors. The program has its heart in the right place, but the execution seems to have lost momentum. Promises have far outweighed results.

mhm993

Given that most every instructor here has been through the pca national training, and more than a few of us are annual presenters or mentors in the pca program, I find it a solution looking for a problem. Maybe it has a place for those instructors who somehow never trained with a marque club.

(Am I mistaken that regions everywhere are as concientous about instructor training as we are in Zone 1?)


Chin previously required instructors to have proof that they completed their marque club national training, though I haven't instructed with them in a couple years.

TXE36

They did when I started instructing with them around the 2016 time frame. Had to provide references to the local PCA CDI.

-Mike

fatbillybob

And we still don't know the unintended consequences... Certainly a solution looking for a problem

Gary R.

Everyone should have to go through CVR's Instructor training program.... that will weed out the dedicated from the not.