Sebring Punt
02-25-2019, 01:00 PM
#48
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Something I would like to see discussed more... Lifting in expanded passing groups..
I keep seeing that here as well as hearing it in the paddock "he didn't lift"... You do not need to lift in expanded passing... The point of lifting is to allow the overtaking car to complete the pass before the turn... In expanded passing, this is not required. You go into and through the turn together.
That's the whole point of expanded passing..
I keep seeing that here as well as hearing it in the paddock "he didn't lift"... You do not need to lift in expanded passing... The point of lifting is to allow the overtaking car to complete the pass before the turn... In expanded passing, this is not required. You go into and through the turn together.
That's the whole point of expanded passing..
02-25-2019, 01:01 PM
#49
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Agreed.
02-25-2019, 01:18 PM
#50
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either D.E or Racing, if contact is made on the track that is the risk. No compensation. You need to have track insurance if you want coverage for your own vehicle.
02-25-2019, 01:21 PM
#51
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[quote=PLNewman]GT3 driver,
Mike, WTF are you doing ???
You're pulling the same stupid **** that's out of line that Clarke did in that other thread.
Mike, WTF are you doing ???
You're pulling the same stupid **** that's out of line that Clarke did in that other thread.
Last edited by Veloce Raptor; 02-25-2019 at 09:27 PM.
02-25-2019, 01:38 PM
#53
While technically the OP is in the right and ultimately it's the passing cars responsibility, to go side by side into a corner at a DE with somebody you don't know is just naive and risky. While the GT3 made a mistake, what you are doing now is intentionally malicious.
02-25-2019, 01:41 PM
#54
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At PCA Rennsport all solo drivers are told that when making a pass to STAY offline until the next corner. No cutting back in front (unless pass is at the very beginning of a long straight). As pointed out by several people the point of a DE is to develop our driving skills and by staying offline we learn a different line on the track. It's not a race so trying different lines throughout is part of the fun and learning experience of DE.
There was no need to lift, as car on inside that late in the turn should alway stay inside and brake harder for the tighter apex. If for some reason the passing car goes in a little too hot and goes deep into the corner the car being passed can just stay outside until there's room to turn without contact.
02-25-2019, 01:48 PM
#55
this thread and posting people's info is much worse to me than the "punt" which looks like barely a touch. Geez just go talk to the person privately at the event if you've got questions about behavior on track. It's not difficult.
02-25-2019, 02:19 PM
#56
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+1
At PCA Rennsport all solo drivers are told that when making a pass to STAY offline until the next corner. No cutting back in front (unless pass is at the very beginning of a long straight). As pointed out by several people the point of a DE is to develop our driving skills and by staying offline we learn a different line on the track. It's not a race so trying different lines throughout is part of the fun and learning experience of DE.
There was no need to lift, as car on inside that late in the turn should alway stay inside and brake harder for the tighter apex. If for some reason the passing car goes in a little too hot and goes deep into the corner the car being passed can just stay outside until there's room to turn without contact.
At PCA Rennsport all solo drivers are told that when making a pass to STAY offline until the next corner. No cutting back in front (unless pass is at the very beginning of a long straight). As pointed out by several people the point of a DE is to develop our driving skills and by staying offline we learn a different line on the track. It's not a race so trying different lines throughout is part of the fun and learning experience of DE.
There was no need to lift, as car on inside that late in the turn should alway stay inside and brake harder for the tighter apex. If for some reason the passing car goes in a little too hot and goes deep into the corner the car being passed can just stay outside until there's room to turn without contact.
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02-25-2019, 02:51 PM
#58
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FWIW IMO the idea of allowing passing in a turn at a DE with the each owns half rule is stupid. It slows both cars down forces one car onto marbles and wioth sticky tires ruins the next lap. Confusing DE with racing is a mistake.
02-25-2019, 03:09 PM
#59
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I think this incident was benign and all is OK, but it could have been much worse.
This is one of those situations that could be a symptom of these very fast cars that are very easy to drive.
Many drivers lately that are in the advances groups that would have never made it there in an analog car just 10 years ago.
These days 2-3 seconds of the pace can be done by very bad inexperienced drivers.
So its very hard to discern what is an advanced driver and basically we don't find out till the driver does something exceedingly stupid.
If I was the offending driver and I did something so exceedingly stupid, I most certainly would apologize and although not needed, nor should be expected, I would write a check.
Even more so because OP remained cool and collected and did a commendable job of minimizing the damage or potential for much worse.
I should and would also expect to be put back into a beginner or medium group with instructor, because he shouldn't be solo.
OP was 100% correct, at no fault at all, but it does show the benefits of being defensive and lifting early / braking early accommodating a pass, if for no other reason to get them away from you.
Several incidents happened the last few months this way and it could have been avoided if the car that was being passed would have slowed up to accommodate the lack of experience / talent that is near the car that's being passed.
[
As far as I know, this is something we do at PBOVC SuperSolo only, to get the most advanced DE drivers ready to go racing as a next step.
PCA does not use that rule.
This is one of those situations that could be a symptom of these very fast cars that are very easy to drive.
Many drivers lately that are in the advances groups that would have never made it there in an analog car just 10 years ago.
These days 2-3 seconds of the pace can be done by very bad inexperienced drivers.
So its very hard to discern what is an advanced driver and basically we don't find out till the driver does something exceedingly stupid.
If I was the offending driver and I did something so exceedingly stupid, I most certainly would apologize and although not needed, nor should be expected, I would write a check.
Even more so because OP remained cool and collected and did a commendable job of minimizing the damage or potential for much worse.
I should and would also expect to be put back into a beginner or medium group with instructor, because he shouldn't be solo.
OP was 100% correct, at no fault at all, but it does show the benefits of being defensive and lifting early / braking early accommodating a pass, if for no other reason to get them away from you.
Several incidents happened the last few months this way and it could have been avoided if the car that was being passed would have slowed up to accommodate the lack of experience / talent that is near the car that's being passed.
[
PCA does not use that rule.
02-25-2019, 03:34 PM
#60
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[QUOTE=TRAKCAR;15663490As far as I know, this is something we do at PBOVC SuperSolo only, to get the most advanced DE drivers ready to go racing as a next step.
PCA does not use that rule.[/QUOTE]
From the PCA DE Minimum Standards
PCA does not use that rule.[/QUOTE]
From the PCA DE Minimum Standards
Expanded Passing Program
The Event Chair may choose to implement the expanded passing program. With expanded passing, passing may occur on all portions of the track, including all turns. If expanded passing is allowed at an event, it shall follow these restrictions:
- Expanded passing will ONLY be run in the Instructors run group which may include non-instructors.
- All passing must be initiated WITH A HAND SIGNAL.
- All signals MUST BE demonstratively clear and there must be one for each car.
- All signals are “real time”. If you initiate a pass with a signal, expect a car to pass at the time you give the signal, not at the next straight away.
- All signals are a contract between two drivers. If you initiate, let the car pass. If you are given a signal and decline, you must wave off the signal.
- No more than two cars side by side in the turn.
- When entering a turn with another car, NO ONE OWNS THE TURN. Each driver is entitled to 50% of the track as if there was a white line through the center of the turn.
- The only passengers allowed in the expanded passing run groups are qualified instructors.
- The Chief Driving Instructor may designate up to five (5) instructors per event who may take advanced students as passengers (no beginners or novices), for the purpose of instruction only.