ProCoach

GT3DE

Add your story to my list of cup transgressions. Lol

Are you a Californian? In October I was at Sonoma with nasa/poc/pca and the high level respect and give and take was way different than crap I've seen east.

Have you raced with the cups at Sebring, Watkins and Road America? The sh*t show of the cups there is thru the roof. I've been run off the track by so many clueless cup drivers. I've watched so many knucklehead moves around me. Dive bomb passes taking other cars out. Jerks dumping anti-freeze causing massive $ wrecks behind them. Seen first hand caranage in piles of cup car crash damage. I was in (and drove through unscathed) the famous big cup crash at the kink at Road America a few years ago. And hours later when we restarted the race got run off the track in t7... My list goes on and on. Just from my own videos I could put together quite a derisive compilation. And since I quit cup I have noticed nothing has changed.

But I am sure there are a few cup drivers that have never caused anyone else a dime. Hopefully you are in that camp.

More than happy to have a beer with you.

And has Joe paid Stu the $14k yet?

Fumes

mhm993

We campaigned an SM so I don't have any exprerience with the cost of "adult" racing.......Joel Reisser told me a joke that often rings true of life. (Fill in any expensive ride for ferrari):

Joel: What do a miata and a ferrari have in common?
A: you can't have a $10k accident in either.

Izzone

OP; I'm confused how do you know all the details to subtract $14K from your agreement?
what did you base your $11k payment on then? A tip? A late Hanukkah gift? Wasn't ur agreement...I crash your car I give you $25k?

If Stu made out better or worse that is at his risk..

Why are you calculating your reasons not to pay Stu? Or was it really just that Stu still has money to go to the grocery store anyways, so the agreement is not valid??

25k is a rounding error in cup car racing..not sure it's worth losing a friend who let u put time on his car at no cost to u

Guess karma gets us all, sorry to hear about Sebring..as I envy those who have the checkbook to race a R

LexVan

That brings back very chilling memories. I was working the false grid that entire weekend.

Streak

This is an excellent point. So many incidents could be decided either way and lord knows we've had some epic arguments right here on Rlist about the passing rule. etc. By placing the burden of assigning the financial responsibility (or absolving responsibility either way) to the incident on the stewards more than likely all this ends up in court.

I think the consensus has been pretty clear: you race it you fix it and don't expect a check from anyone.

Joe if you want to make Stu whole and you think it prudent to do so quickly you can use the "send money to a friend" feature on PayPal and avoid the fees rather than hassling with writing and mailing a check.

deputydog95

If you're experiencing excess contact in E class, maybe it's you and not the class?

deputydog95

Since the OP started this thread, it seems relevant to drill down on his incident in Stu's car... How is the OP's debt to Stu even up for debate considering this was an agreement made before the OP even got behind the wheel.

They had a deal that the OP would pay the deductible if the car was destroyed. He let the OP drive the car and then he totaled it. Stu's weekend was over and his car was done. All the funds he paid to be there, out the window... Money aside, he's probably spent a tremendous amount of time and energy sourcing a new replacement car and then trying to get it set up correctly again. What is Stu's time worth? Based on Stu's car and my car, I'd say way more than mine I don't see how its relevant if Stu got a deal on a new car or made some money back on parts from the old car. At the end of the day, Stu would probably rather have his original, well sorted car back and not dealt with all this drama.

I race E and I also race with a Chump team. I don't own the car. But I pay a deposit and I did sign an agreed value agreement, as well as a parts replacement agreement if I'm found at fault for destroying or damaging the car. Knock on wood

I don't see how this is any different. I hate to make assumptions, but based on the OP's signature, it would appear it's more of unwillingness rather than ability to make Stu whole on the deal. If I wrecked Stu's car, the best I could do is say I'm sorry and buy him dinner LOL

Streak

Agreed. The assumption that Stu "made out" on the total lass of his car is patently absurd. Who paid the insurance premiums that saved For form having to write a $125,000 check? Stu did. Who had to go thru the time and hassle of getting settlement, finding a car and parting his old car? Stu did. Joe went home with nary a care about what he left Stu to deal with. Now Stu has to go thru the time and effort of dialing in a new car. That's expensive and can't be done during a race weekend with the limited track time. He's going to have added expenses in the process of setting up this car in track time, support and consumables. Money he had already spent on the destroyed car and is only having to spend now because of Joe. These are not even intangibles.

But Stu "made out" right?

Just pay Stu what you agreed to.

LuigiVampa

I'm not in E class but for those, including, Clarke, who remember Summit Point, about 3 years ago, there were 3 cars at black flag (all E). There was multiple car contact and it looks like everyone just took it in stride was smiles and handshakes. It looks like it happened due to hard racing and there were no hurty feelings.

I was there because someone dive bombed me. My only contact ever and I got an apology but no money. Small dent in rear quarter panel. I still joke around with the person who hit me. It happens.

This is supposed to be fun and I am happy to keep making jokes. That's what I do.

Steve113

I take offense "self serviced 996GT3 Cup" - some of us "self serviced " guys know how to race

GT3DE

sorry don't remember Summit 3 years ago - what happened?

rubouts are easy with our cheaper cars.
our class is the cheapest way to race, crash and rebuild a Porsche 911. I know, I stuffed mine in the wall at Sebring last year. I bought the car for less than the repair to my gt3 that I put in the fence at Watkins a few years ago because some cup dumbass was running antifreeze in his cup and his cup dumped it on the track because of a leak and he drove his cup back to the garage and I got to watch my car go on a flatbed. did I mention his cup that had antifreeze in it was fine?

Has Joseph Toussaint paid Stu the $14,000 he owes yet?

MSR Racer

Too much bitterness and viciousness here��!!!

David993S

I just caught up and read this entire thread. Seems like the OP left out a detail or two in his original post. If there was an agreement for a deductible in the event of an accident, then pay the car owner. I once had to do that with a rented race car and while I didn't necessarily agree with the amount quoted to repair, I paid. That was the deal. That kind of arrangement aside, one assumes a huge amount of personal and financial liability and responsibility when you strap your butt into a race car. It's part of the sport. I've been the hitter and the hittee, and I never asked for money nor was expected to pay any. If you can't afford the personal and financial risk.......don't race (or DE).