Otto Mechanic

But clearly, the answer can't be "a full out race car".

Perhaps the way to approach the question is with a prioritized list of incremental safety improvements? Begin with the basics and work from there towards a full race car?

One example might be:

1) Seat belts, 3 point.
2) Helmet
3) Firesuit
4) Roll bar/half cage with harness bar
5) 6 point belts, HANS
6) ...

You get the idea?

Otto Mechanic

I need to find the distance airbags expand and I don't know that. Worse still, I've never been involved in an accident of any kind with an airbag equipped car so I have no practical experience to draw on. My 2000 Durango has airbags and its my daily driver, but it's never been in a collision (19 years. My insurance company loves me). I've only had the 944 for a couple of years and my time it it can be measured in hours. No collisions on the 928 either, but it doesn't have bags anyway.

I'll look for data on the protection zone, it must be standard? If the bag strikes the seat back when fully deployed, there shouldn't be a dependence on head motion? I admit complete ignorance on the subject.

LuigiVampa

Will you be continuing these experiments in order to provide us with useful data?

I think the safest car for a DE is basically a race car with only a half cage. A full cage is dangerous on the street unless you are going to drive around with a helmet.

Part of the decision is usually based on money. Having a $100k race car sit in the garage unless you drive on track is not palatable for some people but you can pick up miatas and hot hatchbacks with full cages for under $6k sometimes. Is the "beside a race car" based on price or just wanting to drive it?

My 944 would be considered a "race car" if it had a full cage - but it is only a half cage so I drive it on the street. I bought it for about $6,500.

I think the best compromise car is:

1. half cage
2. race seat
3. harness
4. HANS
5. fire suit

If you have all these things I think you can look yourself in the mirror and say that you are taking all reasonable steps to keep yourself safe.

Otto Mechanic

So I'll take a shot at my own suggestion, my prioritized list of things to do. It's the reason I joined this discussion anyway since I'm just beginning to prepare my newest car (the 944 S2) for HPDE now that I've finished my first phase of suspension/drive train improvements. My sequence goes like this:

0) Helmet, Firesuit (I use these anytime I put any car on the track).
1) Half cage, roll Bar, harness bar, seat supports.
2) Containment seats. Sparco Ergo w/removable HALO wings in my case.
3) 6 pt. harness, HANS
4) Fire suppression system.
5) Electrical cutoffs in and out.
--- beyond this point I lose the ability to drive the car on the street I think ---
6) Front cage loop & side impact bars

I've been looking at the Safety Devices P018 cage for the 944. It's a bolt in and I've just begun investigating whether it might be installed partially for rollover protection, harness & seat support, leaving the front hoop and side impact bars for later pre-track installation. I've only asked Safety Devices for its weight so far (40 kg) but not if it might be installed partially. They have said the cage is no longer FIA/MIA certified, or certified for any other competition use, so I need to ask them if they have a comparable product that is or the investigation ends pretty quickly and it's on to another product.

Thanks to another fellow on this thread I have leads on the parts I might use to build a custom cage with removable side impact bars, still looking at that option. My impression, as I've said earlier, is the cage is the largest problem to overcome in a dual use car. It seems there's significant demand for that ability so maybe someone will decide to serve the market. Maybe someone already has and I don't know about it.

LuigiVampa

See - we are back on topic!

Otto Mechanic

I'll be continuing the investigation. I don't think I'll really find much in the way of useful data though. I'm not an optimist. It would be informative to hear anecdotes though.

If you're interested in the type of data we might need to evaluate the effectiveness of some kind of mediation (for example full vs. half cages?) you could look at "Are booster seats needed: comparing occupant outcomes ages 4-7 versus 8-13" as a similar type of study. You should be able to find it with a web search, I got it through my ResearchGate account but you may have to be a published author to look at it, not sure. It's here: https://www.researchgate.net/publica...-7_versus_8-13

ajcjr

I have the helmet, hans, fire suit, gloves, and shoes. I plan to wear them when on track. I think the half cage and the seats w belts def make sense. I looked at some cheaper miatas and such cars, i think the mazda platform is great just worried about keeping my arm out the window for point byes all day lol

T&T Racing

If you are pushing them in the corner with a Miata, then you are turning faster lap times.

Olemiss540

You already have a great car!

Glenn R

I've been living on the Pelican BBS for years and just recently started spending more time here.
I just read this whole thread. I am relatively new to track driving and have an eye on racing. Right now, the biggest safety improvement I can make is my driving. My career currently has me in a Risk Management role. So I look at the safety question as achieving a comfortable balance. And what that balance is, will depend on the driver. Having data and opinions from this thread, I think my set up is about right. I have a half caged 944 NA with race seats (not fixed), 5 point harnesses, HANS, helmet, shoes, gloves and a fire extinguisher. Based on this thread, I've added a fixed back containment seat and electrical cut-offs to my list of future mods. And I'm going to start shopping for a suit.

Gary R.

Sounds like an intelligent approach! When looking for a suit, unless racing is only 1-3 years away, I would get something lightweight even if only single layer for now. It offers MUCH more protection than jeans an a tee shirt, and you can run a light nomex shirt under it to add even more protection.

LuigiVampa

This is what I started out with when I bought my 944 turbo which I still have. I think it is a sensible balance that will see you through into the higher run groups.

I also started out on Pelican before finding RL. Much more lively crowd here!

+1

The lighter you go the more it costs. My first race suit felt like I was wearing an oven mitt. I'm not kidding - it was horrible.

fatbillybob

I started with a 3 layer oven mitt. Then with science a 2 layer met the FIA spec. Now certain 1 layer suits make the spec. The newer sparco 1 layer suits are so awesome I can feel the breeze in the paddock through my zipped up suit! Spend a little extra to get one of these new suits. They are worth the money.

Olemiss540

I've read a cheap nomex flight suit can be a great intermediate step if you dont have the budget for a $$$ suit yet. Better than nothing and can sell it when you go to the next level.

LuigiVampa

You can also get used professional nomex suits on eBay. Guy I know has a Helmann's mayonnaise race suit that he got on eBay - it's hilarious!

Better than nothing.