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Old 01-06-2019, 09:10 PM
  #136  
Gary R.
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Originally Posted by chartersb View Post
Maybe it's time for PCA to start combining letter classes by adjusting "stock" weights. Yes we end up racing the cars around us and that is why were racing in the first place. But it would be nice to know that your platform could actually be competitive to start with. As it is, many are weight/power penalized out of the box and it's not fun when you start with that handicap in addition to the talent penalty. Whatever happens, Club Racing will still be a blast and a tremendous bang for the buck
I've always thought the weights required in the letter classes realistic and the best drivers were the ones at the top. Really don't see your point when all in the class have to meet the specs? I'm more curious of what they come up with to make a D car able to compete with a 3.6 G car...
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Old 01-06-2019, 10:16 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Gary R. View Post
I've always thought the weights required in the letter classes realistic and the best drivers were the ones at the top. Really don't see your point when all in the class have to meet the specs? I'm more curious of what they come up with to make a D car able to compete with a 3.6 G car...
I think the weights, for the most part are reasonable as well. And regardless of class, it is huge fun to race those around you. But the race event is better, way more fun with more cars in your class. Overall letter class car counts are declining and many of the individual letter classes are dramatically smaller. It's especially noticeable at the "smaller" races. It's not so much about competitiveness, when you're slow, you're slow. It's about being in a class of 10 - 20 cars instead of 3 or 4 or 2. For example D and G are tiny and F is slowly shrinking. With weight adjustments, if D was rolled into E; and G into F those would combined classes would be healthier, more fun. And that's the point of it all.
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Old 01-06-2019, 10:51 PM
  #138  
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Combine A/B/C (no one races in these anyway), D/E, F/G and H/I, and J/K. Adjust the lower class weight by ~150 lbs which may need to include allowing after market body panels. You end up with up with 5 classes instead of 11 and don’t orphan cars like the 2.7L Boxster.
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Old 01-07-2019, 10:59 AM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by 38D View Post
Combine A/B/C (no one races in these anyway), D/E, F/G and H/I, and J/K. Adjust the lower class weight by ~150 lbs which may need to include allowing after market body panels. You end up with up with 5 classes instead of 11 and don’t orphan cars like the 2.7L Boxster.
^^^ This !!! Helps us watercooled boys have competition again.
Maybe take one step further and get rid of prepared classes. Maybe allow a few of the "prepared" changes in these new combines stock classes (like brakes or aero), and make anything else go to the GT classes.
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:09 AM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by rmag View Post
^^^ This !!! Helps us watercooled boys have competition again.
Maybe take one step further and get rid of prepared classes. Maybe allow a few of the "prepared" changes in these new combines stock classes (like brakes or aero), and make anything else go to the GT classes.
x3 and funny you type that because I was thinking along similar lines for prepared when I read Colin's post - that moving up a class is a prepared move so this would be forced and allow some other changes as well since as we know many prepared cars aren't competitive depending on the car and class. So as you write weight + SOME prepared changes (no flared fenders or Porsche motorsport ABS for example).

That said, of course there will still be some issues - as mentioned the F and G 964 cars are exactly the same except 271# weight difference. Also the F Boxster S has almost the exact p/w as the G 964/RSA as shown in the rule book and actual p/w (after exhaust for Boxsters) isn't too far off either. IMO the Boxster S is a G car or F+, meaning it "belongs" as much in G as it does in F and giving is 150# and mods would mean it would have a clear advantage over most G cars. I'm sure there are other examples like this.

I know it won't happen and back to my wish list again but would be good to look at individual cars and change their weight accordingly - taking into account average power changes after mods and just as importantly technology differences between models (aero, brakes, gearing, suspension) although again I know that won't happen and would be even more arguments until the end of time.

Last edited by forklift; 01-07-2019 at 11:18 AM. Reason: clarify
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Old 01-07-2019, 11:25 AM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by 38D View Post
Combine A/B/C (no one races in these anyway), D/E, F/G and H/I, and J/K. Adjust the lower class weight by ~150 lbs which may need to include allowing after market body panels. You end up with up with 5 classes instead of 11 and don’t orphan cars like the 2.7L Boxster.
Something along those lines would be a great idea. Always thought there are way too many classes and 1-2 car class fields in PCA. Anything that lowers the # of classes would be a step in the right direction. Maybe PCA could just map the SCCA or NASA class definitions onto the Porsche universe?
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Old 01-07-2019, 12:10 PM
  #142  
Frank 993 C4S
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These ideas are always great until somebody does the math on the associated costs of taking a couple of hundred pounds of weight out of the slower cars to make them competitive in an expanded class.
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Old 01-07-2019, 12:16 PM
  #143  
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Much cheaper to add weight to the stronger cars.
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Old 01-07-2019, 12:55 PM
  #144  
Frank 993 C4S
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Originally Posted by hf1
Much cheaper to add weight to the stronger cars.
Where do you safely add 100+ lbs of ballast to a car? There is a reason why ballast is limited to 50 lbs.
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:14 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by Frank 993 C4S View Post
Where do you safely add 100+ lbs of ballast to a car? There is a reason why ballast is limited to 50 lbs.
ROTFLMAO.
50. HAHAAAAAAAHAHA
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:26 PM
  #146  
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Ballast is limited to 100 lbs. for letter classes.
Ballast is limited to 75 lbs. for SPB.
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:35 PM
  #147  
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Maybe I need education. Why is adding more than 100+lbs considered unsafe? An extra person is 170lbs and often much more. Most race cars based on street cars have probably already taken off >200lbs from how they came from the factory.
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:52 PM
  #148  
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I think if the cost is reasonable (2 sets of hoosiers?) most would want to race a lighter car, not a heavier car and to start w/ removing weight out of the lower class than adding to the higher class although that could be done also of course.

How many cars can still remove sound deadening, a/c crap, spare tire (I know crash protect), passenger seat, gut sunroof etc.?
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Old 01-07-2019, 02:30 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by forklift View Post
I think if the cost is reasonable (2 sets of hoosiers?) most would want to race a lighter car, not a heavier car and to start w/ removing weight out of the lower class than adding to the higher class although that could be done also of course.

How many cars can still remove sound deadening, a/c crap, spare tire (I know crash protect), passenger seat, gut sunroof etc.?
Of course, lighter cars are preferable to heavier ones but probably not at any cost. A reasonable compromise between the two could be found, for the benefit of all (larger class fields).
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Old 01-07-2019, 02:45 PM
  #150  
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For reference: I run nearly 100# ballast in my E car to meet class weight with a spare, and non-gutted doors w/functioning electric windows
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