No money, no drivey
12-10-2018, 02:03 PM
#61
Burning Brakes
Another way to look at it, what satisfaction does one get from buying there ride knowing there is a better driver out there that can drive circles around them? If its a hobby and you are there only to be in on the big stage its one thing but it has to play mind tricks on some of these guys who are only there because of the mighty dollar.
I've beaten and overtaken (in equal cars) and banged fenders on track with factory drivers, overall Le Mans winners and people I've looked up to since I was a kid. Granted, normally they're faster and better overall than I am, but no one will ever be able to take that away from me. And, the times I'll remember to my dying day aren't spraying champagne after winning big races or the drivers parade in France for the 24 Hour (ok, maybe!), but the times drivers I *still* look up to and admire have come to find me after a race and given a sincere compliment on my performance.
-mike
12-10-2018, 03:13 PM
#62
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The challenge. I can't speak for anyone else, but out of all the true gentleman drivers I've met, it's almost universal that we do it for the challenge. Not necessarily to beat the Pros (although I always try!), but to see how far we can push ourselves to improve. I had a very fortunate and interesting life before I ventured into sports car racing, but since then, I've learned a lot more about myself.
I've beaten and overtaken (in equal cars) and banged fenders on track with factory drivers, overall Le Mans winners and people I've looked up to since I was a kid. Granted, normally they're faster and better overall than I am, but no one will ever be able to take that away from me. And, the times I'll remember to my dying day aren't spraying champagne after winning big races or the drivers parade in France for the 24 Hour (ok, maybe!), but the times drivers I *still* look up to and admire have come to find me after a race and given a sincere compliment on my performance.
-mike
I've beaten and overtaken (in equal cars) and banged fenders on track with factory drivers, overall Le Mans winners and people I've looked up to since I was a kid. Granted, normally they're faster and better overall than I am, but no one will ever be able to take that away from me. And, the times I'll remember to my dying day aren't spraying champagne after winning big races or the drivers parade in France for the 24 Hour (ok, maybe!), but the times drivers I *still* look up to and admire have come to find me after a race and given a sincere compliment on my performance.
-mike
12-10-2018, 03:13 PM
#63
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The challenge. I can't speak for anyone else, but out of all the true gentleman drivers I've met, it's almost universal that we do it for the challenge. Not necessarily to beat the Pros (although I always try!), but to see how far we can push ourselves to improve. I had a very fortunate and interesting life before I ventured into sports car racing, but since then, I've learned a lot more about myself.
I've beaten and overtaken (in equal cars) and banged fenders on track with factory drivers, overall Le Mans winners and people I've looked up to since I was a kid. Granted, normally they're faster and better overall than I am, but no one will ever be able to take that away from me. And, the times I'll remember to my dying day aren't spraying champagne after winning big races or the drivers parade in France for the 24 Hour (ok, maybe!), but the times drivers I *still* look up to and admire have come to find me after a race and given a sincere compliment on my performance.
-mike
I've beaten and overtaken (in equal cars) and banged fenders on track with factory drivers, overall Le Mans winners and people I've looked up to since I was a kid. Granted, normally they're faster and better overall than I am, but no one will ever be able to take that away from me. And, the times I'll remember to my dying day aren't spraying champagne after winning big races or the drivers parade in France for the 24 Hour (ok, maybe!), but the times drivers I *still* look up to and admire have come to find me after a race and given a sincere compliment on my performance.
-mike
12-10-2018, 05:06 PM
#64
The challenge. I can't speak for anyone else, but out of all the true gentleman drivers I've met, it's almost universal that we do it for the challenge. Not necessarily to beat the Pros (although I always try!), but to see how far we can push ourselves to improve. I had a very fortunate and interesting life before I ventured into sports car racing, but since then, I've learned a lot more about myself.
I've beaten and overtaken (in equal cars) and banged fenders on track with factory drivers, overall Le Mans winners and people I've looked up to since I was a kid. Granted, normally they're faster and better overall than I am, but no one will ever be able to take that away from me. And, the times I'll remember to my dying day aren't spraying champagne after winning big races or the drivers parade in France for the 24 Hour (ok, maybe!), but the times drivers I *still* look up to and admire have come to find me after a race and given a sincere compliment on my performance.
-mike
I've beaten and overtaken (in equal cars) and banged fenders on track with factory drivers, overall Le Mans winners and people I've looked up to since I was a kid. Granted, normally they're faster and better overall than I am, but no one will ever be able to take that away from me. And, the times I'll remember to my dying day aren't spraying champagne after winning big races or the drivers parade in France for the 24 Hour (ok, maybe!), but the times drivers I *still* look up to and admire have come to find me after a race and given a sincere compliment on my performance.
-mike
12-10-2018, 06:44 PM
#65
Fascinating thread.
I learned a lot of this... wide eyed and completely naive - in my early 20s when racing motorcycles. First time I got a call for a "ride"... I could have pee'd my pants I was so thrilled. Decent (but still privateer) team, big trucks, big stage... thrilled. Did I mention thrilled? Met with them, did some testing. Was THRILLED! BIG TIME! We finally sit down and start going over the package proposal they'd prepared.... much excite.... they hit me, at the very end, with the rub: "Just cut us a check for $100,000, we can get the first bike purchased and set up - and we'll start testing in a few weeks to start prepping for next year."
Talk about the heart sink. I was young and dumb and had NO idea. Now of course, I realize how dumb I was.... but back then, I was completely beside myself. It was like being told you won the Megaball lottery, were given a small advance on the winnings just to "try it out", then to suddenly be told, "Oh... nevermind. Give that back please." Motorcycles are definitely cheaper than 4-wheelers.... but when I was a 23-24 year old kid, that $100,000 cash requirement might as well have been $1,000,000.
I've since been completely fascinated by the racing industry. Having a good friend who worked deep within the bowels of IMSA for years enlightened me even further. If you're a fan on the outside, or an enthusiast club racer.... you really have no clue how much $$$ it takes to play at the top level.
It's really a shame to see the top talent losing their drive because of money. My wife is a HUGE Christina Nielsen fan, she got to meet her and chat with her a bit before the Daytona24 a few years ago, and she likes Madison Snow too (mostly because he's from Utah, where she was born...) But I know how it works. The team isn't a charity... they've gotta keep the lights on too.
Anyways - fascinating thread. I'll go back to lurking now.
I learned a lot of this... wide eyed and completely naive - in my early 20s when racing motorcycles. First time I got a call for a "ride"... I could have pee'd my pants I was so thrilled. Decent (but still privateer) team, big trucks, big stage... thrilled. Did I mention thrilled? Met with them, did some testing. Was THRILLED! BIG TIME! We finally sit down and start going over the package proposal they'd prepared.... much excite.... they hit me, at the very end, with the rub: "Just cut us a check for $100,000, we can get the first bike purchased and set up - and we'll start testing in a few weeks to start prepping for next year."
Talk about the heart sink. I was young and dumb and had NO idea. Now of course, I realize how dumb I was.... but back then, I was completely beside myself. It was like being told you won the Megaball lottery, were given a small advance on the winnings just to "try it out", then to suddenly be told, "Oh... nevermind. Give that back please." Motorcycles are definitely cheaper than 4-wheelers.... but when I was a 23-24 year old kid, that $100,000 cash requirement might as well have been $1,000,000.
I've since been completely fascinated by the racing industry. Having a good friend who worked deep within the bowels of IMSA for years enlightened me even further. If you're a fan on the outside, or an enthusiast club racer.... you really have no clue how much $$$ it takes to play at the top level.
It's really a shame to see the top talent losing their drive because of money. My wife is a HUGE Christina Nielsen fan, she got to meet her and chat with her a bit before the Daytona24 a few years ago, and she likes Madison Snow too (mostly because he's from Utah, where she was born...) But I know how it works. The team isn't a charity... they've gotta keep the lights on too.
Anyways - fascinating thread. I'll go back to lurking now.
12-10-2018, 07:17 PM
#67
Rennlist Member
I will add one more data point that became very clear during my time in the big show: contrary to what most of the public thinks, seeing a sponsor logon on TV in IMSA or PWC or the old ALMS or Grand Am has very little value. That's not the big pay off. In addition to the B2B aspect Mike articulated, the track side VIP hospitality for sponsor execs, their customers, preferred vendors, rewarded employees, etc is often a really big ROI and a very useful perk.
12-10-2018, 10:22 PM
#68
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Wright has (and continues with) a very effective and successful Yokohama GT3 Cup Series program. They're going to be just fine.
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www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
12-11-2018, 04:03 AM
#69
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Motorsport is no ball and stick sport. It cost alot of money where very few make a living and even fewer get rich from what I have seen.
It reminds me of Ski Racing when I was younger. Alot of fun, cost alot, hard to make money and very few make it.
I have been driving tarmac rallies since 2001, driving track since 2011 and Club Racing since 2016. I enjoy every aspect of the sport. It is where I like to spend my time.
For 2019 I have decided to step up to IMSA for a couple events to see if I can run with the pack and I will also try a season of PWC to get accustomed to running along side of other marques and drivers. It is my rookie season so my goal is to gain experience and seat time in the upper level of sports car racing.
I find that raising the bar in this sport is something that happens if you are focused, spend alot of time doing it and enjoy it. Like any sport really. IMSA and PWC were the logical next step for my progression.
Alot of drivers cannot make this step given the cost involved to run at this level. It really is unfortunate as there are some really good drivers out there that never get the chance.
I come from a business background. Thus I am self funded. It allows me to do this and employ skilled people required to facilitate it for me. These skilled people rely on people like me to be their customer in order to make their business work. I understand how hard that can be and I respect them very much. I find that these people are people who share the same passion for motorsports and have typically tried their hand in it for better or worse once upon a time and ended up where they are today in the motorsport industry. I enjoy hearing all their racing stories.
I would say that I am considered a gentleman driver.
From my personal experience, I have witnessed my club racing team mates make the move to IMSA within a short period of time. They had the desire, the ***** and money to do it. They too would be considered gentleman drivers.
I watched one team mate slowly progress into a club racing/IMSA mix season with their own car, to a half IMSA season to a fulll blown season.
My other team mate went straight to a two car effort, full IMSA season and then half way through the season switched teams, and then switched cars and then started his own team!
My 3rd team mate has arranged to rent a seat in an IMSA car this season.
The approach to their season was to find a support team and a hot shoe who could coach/co-drive. One driver chose a young, up and commer with great promise, the other driver went after the best he could find and 3rd found a young hot shoe to coach during club racing which has now slippery sloped to an IMSA seat and co-drive deal!
From what I can see, at the highest level of club racing it is not uncommon to see pros coaching gentleman drivers, and it is not uncommon to see these gentleman drivers step up to IMSA/PWC and keep their pro coach as their coach/co-driver.
I see some of these young pros during the season coaching at our club events and then driving in IMSA for teams or gentleman drivers.
These young pros are always coaching and networking for their next gig. Networking with potential sponsers and networking with potential team owners.
In other circumstances, you have gentleman drivers hiring the fastest pros they can find for a season to get them to the front of the pack and potentially a podium. The pro dosnt necessarily have to come with sponser money, but sometimes they have long standing networking contacts that bring a little something with them.
As a self funded rookie in IMSA/PWC, I have the expense of my car, helmet, suits, entry fees, hotels/travel, fuel, tires, transportation and support crew. I also am faced with the expense of a coach/co-driver. I could go and buy a hot shoe co-driver but I feel I am just not to that level and it will not help me progress at this time. I feel that I can equally benefit with a coach who i communicate well with and who can co-drive consistantly and reliably.
I have been fortunate to find a small team who has the experience to support my car, coach me and co-drive for me at my level. All bundled in one tidy package. It is like a partnership in a sense and makes it worth while for them and great value for me in this expensive arena of racing.
That being said, I can see gentleman drivers out there or teams looking for an available hot shoe driver to fill a seat. Christina Nielsen could certainly be a good candidate to fill a seat IMO.
Im certain that if hired her to co-drive my car all season that I could end up placing much better then I anticipated.
One thing that I have noticed, when you are registered for IMSA, you will find young up and commers approaching you for a seat if available.
It has to be hard to break into the market for these young drivers especially with seasoned drivers also looking for rides.
It reminds me of Ski Racing when I was younger. Alot of fun, cost alot, hard to make money and very few make it.
I have been driving tarmac rallies since 2001, driving track since 2011 and Club Racing since 2016. I enjoy every aspect of the sport. It is where I like to spend my time.
For 2019 I have decided to step up to IMSA for a couple events to see if I can run with the pack and I will also try a season of PWC to get accustomed to running along side of other marques and drivers. It is my rookie season so my goal is to gain experience and seat time in the upper level of sports car racing.
I find that raising the bar in this sport is something that happens if you are focused, spend alot of time doing it and enjoy it. Like any sport really. IMSA and PWC were the logical next step for my progression.
Alot of drivers cannot make this step given the cost involved to run at this level. It really is unfortunate as there are some really good drivers out there that never get the chance.
I come from a business background. Thus I am self funded. It allows me to do this and employ skilled people required to facilitate it for me. These skilled people rely on people like me to be their customer in order to make their business work. I understand how hard that can be and I respect them very much. I find that these people are people who share the same passion for motorsports and have typically tried their hand in it for better or worse once upon a time and ended up where they are today in the motorsport industry. I enjoy hearing all their racing stories.
I would say that I am considered a gentleman driver.
From my personal experience, I have witnessed my club racing team mates make the move to IMSA within a short period of time. They had the desire, the ***** and money to do it. They too would be considered gentleman drivers.
I watched one team mate slowly progress into a club racing/IMSA mix season with their own car, to a half IMSA season to a fulll blown season.
My other team mate went straight to a two car effort, full IMSA season and then half way through the season switched teams, and then switched cars and then started his own team!
My 3rd team mate has arranged to rent a seat in an IMSA car this season.
The approach to their season was to find a support team and a hot shoe who could coach/co-drive. One driver chose a young, up and commer with great promise, the other driver went after the best he could find and 3rd found a young hot shoe to coach during club racing which has now slippery sloped to an IMSA seat and co-drive deal!
From what I can see, at the highest level of club racing it is not uncommon to see pros coaching gentleman drivers, and it is not uncommon to see these gentleman drivers step up to IMSA/PWC and keep their pro coach as their coach/co-driver.
I see some of these young pros during the season coaching at our club events and then driving in IMSA for teams or gentleman drivers.
These young pros are always coaching and networking for their next gig. Networking with potential sponsers and networking with potential team owners.
In other circumstances, you have gentleman drivers hiring the fastest pros they can find for a season to get them to the front of the pack and potentially a podium. The pro dosnt necessarily have to come with sponser money, but sometimes they have long standing networking contacts that bring a little something with them.
As a self funded rookie in IMSA/PWC, I have the expense of my car, helmet, suits, entry fees, hotels/travel, fuel, tires, transportation and support crew. I also am faced with the expense of a coach/co-driver. I could go and buy a hot shoe co-driver but I feel I am just not to that level and it will not help me progress at this time. I feel that I can equally benefit with a coach who i communicate well with and who can co-drive consistantly and reliably.
I have been fortunate to find a small team who has the experience to support my car, coach me and co-drive for me at my level. All bundled in one tidy package. It is like a partnership in a sense and makes it worth while for them and great value for me in this expensive arena of racing.
That being said, I can see gentleman drivers out there or teams looking for an available hot shoe driver to fill a seat. Christina Nielsen could certainly be a good candidate to fill a seat IMO.
Im certain that if hired her to co-drive my car all season that I could end up placing much better then I anticipated.
One thing that I have noticed, when you are registered for IMSA, you will find young up and commers approaching you for a seat if available.
It has to be hard to break into the market for these young drivers especially with seasoned drivers also looking for rides.
12-11-2018, 06:25 AM
#70
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Rennlist Member
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Motorsport is no ball and stick sport. It cost alot of money where very few make a living and even fewer get rich from what I have seen.
It reminds me of Ski Racing when I was younger. Alot of fun, cost alot, hard to make money and very few make it.
I have been driving tarmac rallies since 2001, driving track since 2011 and Club Racing since 2016. I enjoy every aspect of the sport. It is where I like to spend my time.
For 2019 I have decided to step up to IMSA for a couple events to see if I can run with the pack and I will also try a season of PWC to get accustomed to running along side of other marques and drivers. It is my rookie season so my goal is to gain experience and seat time in the upper level of sports car racing.
I find that raising the bar in this sport is something that happens if you are focused, spend alot of time doing it and enjoy it. Like any sport really. IMSA and PWC were the logical next step for my progression.
Alot of drivers cannot make this step given the cost involved to run at this level. It really is unfortunate as there are some really good drivers out there that never get the chance.
I come from a business background. Thus I am self funded. It allows me to do this and employ skilled people required to facilitate it for me. These skilled people rely on people like me to be their customer in order to make their business work. I understand how hard that can be and I respect them very much. I find that these people are people who share the same passion for motorsports and have typically tried their hand in it for better or worse once upon a time and ended up where they are today in the motorsport industry. I enjoy hearing all their racing stories.
I would say that I am considered a gentleman driver.
From my personal experience, I have witnessed my club racing team mates make the move to IMSA within a short period of time. They had the desire, the ***** and money to do it. They too would be considered gentleman drivers.
I watched one team mate slowly progress into a club racing/IMSA mix season with their own car, to a half IMSA season to a fulll blown season.
My other team mate went straight to a two car effort, full IMSA season and then half way through the season switched teams, and then switched cars and then started his own team!
My 3rd team mate has arranged to rent a seat in an IMSA car this season.
The approach to their season was to find a support team and a hot shoe who could coach/co-drive. One driver chose a young, up and commer with great promise, the other driver went after the best he could find and 3rd found a young hot shoe to coach during club racing which has now slippery sloped to an IMSA seat and co-drive deal!
From what I can see, at the highest level of club racing it is not uncommon to see pros coaching gentleman drivers, and it is not uncommon to see these gentleman drivers step up to IMSA/PWC and keep their pro coach as their coach/co-driver.
I see some of these young pros during the season coaching at our club events and then driving in IMSA for teams or gentleman drivers.
These young pros are always coaching and networking for their next gig. Networking with potential sponsers and networking with potential team owners.
In other circumstances, you have gentleman drivers hiring the fastest pros they can find for a season to get them to the front of the pack and potentially a podium. The pro dosnt necessarily have to come with sponser money, but sometimes they have long standing networking contacts that bring a little something with them.
As a self funded rookie in IMSA/PWC, I have the expense of my car, helmet, suits, entry fees, hotels/travel, fuel, tires, transportation and support crew. I also am faced with the expense of a coach/co-driver. I could go and buy a hot shoe co-driver but I feel I am just not to that level and it will not help me progress at this time. I feel that I can equally benefit with a coach who i communicate well with and who can co-drive consistantly and reliably.
I have been fortunate to find a small team who has the experience to support my car, coach me and co-drive for me at my level. All bundled in one tidy package. It is like a partnership in a sense and makes it worth while for them and great value for me in this expensive arena of racing.
That being said, I can see gentleman drivers out there or teams looking for an available hot shoe driver to fill a seat. Christina Nielsen could certainly be a good candidate to fill a seat IMO.
Im certain that if hired her to co-drive my car all season that I could end up placing much better then I anticipated.
One thing that I have noticed, when you are registered for IMSA, you will find young up and commers approaching you for a seat if available.
It has to be hard to break into the market for these young drivers especially with seasoned drivers also looking for rides.
It reminds me of Ski Racing when I was younger. Alot of fun, cost alot, hard to make money and very few make it.
I have been driving tarmac rallies since 2001, driving track since 2011 and Club Racing since 2016. I enjoy every aspect of the sport. It is where I like to spend my time.
For 2019 I have decided to step up to IMSA for a couple events to see if I can run with the pack and I will also try a season of PWC to get accustomed to running along side of other marques and drivers. It is my rookie season so my goal is to gain experience and seat time in the upper level of sports car racing.
I find that raising the bar in this sport is something that happens if you are focused, spend alot of time doing it and enjoy it. Like any sport really. IMSA and PWC were the logical next step for my progression.
Alot of drivers cannot make this step given the cost involved to run at this level. It really is unfortunate as there are some really good drivers out there that never get the chance.
I come from a business background. Thus I am self funded. It allows me to do this and employ skilled people required to facilitate it for me. These skilled people rely on people like me to be their customer in order to make their business work. I understand how hard that can be and I respect them very much. I find that these people are people who share the same passion for motorsports and have typically tried their hand in it for better or worse once upon a time and ended up where they are today in the motorsport industry. I enjoy hearing all their racing stories.
I would say that I am considered a gentleman driver.
From my personal experience, I have witnessed my club racing team mates make the move to IMSA within a short period of time. They had the desire, the ***** and money to do it. They too would be considered gentleman drivers.
I watched one team mate slowly progress into a club racing/IMSA mix season with their own car, to a half IMSA season to a fulll blown season.
My other team mate went straight to a two car effort, full IMSA season and then half way through the season switched teams, and then switched cars and then started his own team!
My 3rd team mate has arranged to rent a seat in an IMSA car this season.
The approach to their season was to find a support team and a hot shoe who could coach/co-drive. One driver chose a young, up and commer with great promise, the other driver went after the best he could find and 3rd found a young hot shoe to coach during club racing which has now slippery sloped to an IMSA seat and co-drive deal!
From what I can see, at the highest level of club racing it is not uncommon to see pros coaching gentleman drivers, and it is not uncommon to see these gentleman drivers step up to IMSA/PWC and keep their pro coach as their coach/co-driver.
I see some of these young pros during the season coaching at our club events and then driving in IMSA for teams or gentleman drivers.
These young pros are always coaching and networking for their next gig. Networking with potential sponsers and networking with potential team owners.
In other circumstances, you have gentleman drivers hiring the fastest pros they can find for a season to get them to the front of the pack and potentially a podium. The pro dosnt necessarily have to come with sponser money, but sometimes they have long standing networking contacts that bring a little something with them.
As a self funded rookie in IMSA/PWC, I have the expense of my car, helmet, suits, entry fees, hotels/travel, fuel, tires, transportation and support crew. I also am faced with the expense of a coach/co-driver. I could go and buy a hot shoe co-driver but I feel I am just not to that level and it will not help me progress at this time. I feel that I can equally benefit with a coach who i communicate well with and who can co-drive consistantly and reliably.
I have been fortunate to find a small team who has the experience to support my car, coach me and co-drive for me at my level. All bundled in one tidy package. It is like a partnership in a sense and makes it worth while for them and great value for me in this expensive arena of racing.
That being said, I can see gentleman drivers out there or teams looking for an available hot shoe driver to fill a seat. Christina Nielsen could certainly be a good candidate to fill a seat IMO.
Im certain that if hired her to co-drive my car all season that I could end up placing much better then I anticipated.
One thing that I have noticed, when you are registered for IMSA, you will find young up and commers approaching you for a seat if available.
It has to be hard to break into the market for these young drivers especially with seasoned drivers also looking for rides.
12-11-2018, 07:17 AM
#71
Rennlist Member
12-11-2018, 09:05 AM
#72
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+2 !!!
12-11-2018, 09:13 AM
#73
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Tom, it’s been a pleasure to watch and follow your progress! Good luck next season!
12-11-2018, 10:54 AM
#75
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Streak
So where is Red Bull? They have their name plastered on everything with an engine.
Except American sports car racing?
Except American sports car racing?