pkh

I am in Portland, Oregon - been tracking for years and want to get into racing. I did a couple of Lucky Dog races so far and definitely want to do more, but not sure which series to choose:

Lucky Dog Racing: Team endurance racing, car needs to be 15 years old but I would not consider Lemons style. You can run a fairly well prepped car, and as long as you don't go too fast you won't get banned. I love the team aspect, makes for a really fun environment. Also fun to be able to build a race car with whatever you want and not have to spend days studying rule books or just going from a standard spec shopping list of stuff. Its a no contact series with strict penalties buit in. There are enough races that with some travel I could do one race per month, goes pretty much all year.

Main concerns would be: there are some X factors of people who barely know how to drive and cars that are not entirely well put together. Also you can end up spending a lot of time and money on an older car trying to stay competitive.

Spec Miata: I am drawn to it because I have driven these cars and they are a ton of fun. There are plenty of races around here and they are well attended.

Mostly I am discouraged by the fact there seems to be a "cheater class" of engine that people run, and I don't want to play those sorts of games. I also don't want to buy a set of hoosiers every single race/qualifying/practice just to be competitive. I realize that this is part of racing to degree, but isn't supposed to be the cheapo entry level racing?

Spec Racer Ford: Cars look really fun. I have driven Formula Mazdas at Bondurant and really loved it. Seems to be as close as you can get to truly spec racing with everyone on equal footing, though you may pay extra for setup and sticker tires. Looks like lots of races and racers around here.

Downsides... worried about the safety and comfort of open cockpit. Still recovering from a massive crash in my last race, and I wonder about what would have happened in a smaller car. Also seems like it could be pretty expensive if I wanted to do arrive and drive style with someone else handling doing mechanic/setup work.

Racing Porsches, etc: EXPENSIVE! I just can't do it, my hobby can't be a 6 figure a year thing. Also from what I can tell we don't have PCA races around here, so not sure what my options would even be. I love taking my GT4 to track days and racing a CS or Cup Car would be a dream come true, but not now.... maybe, later.

So what do you all think?

GT3DE

There are 3 Porsche racing groups on the left coast.
PCA, PRC, POC.
There is a ton of races.

pu911rsr

At the end of the day your costs will be based on more than just the car you choose to race. Racing anything ain't cheap - you need a truck and trailer, gas hotel rooms etc. Next - do you just want to race or do you want to win races. One will probably cost more than the other. My advice is to get hooked up with a local club, there is one that runs events in Oregon and Washington, can't recall name, attend a couple of events and see what folks are running, poke around the pits and let people know you want to buy a car - there will be race cars for sale. Buy one and go have fun!

Phil

mglobe

Frank 993 C4S

MaynardZed

Agree. The temperament of the group of guys you'll be racing with is more important than the particular vehicle your in. Walk around the pits, see what's popular. Get a gauge of the people there. If a group of competitors in the same class are all pitted next to each other and mingling, that's probably a clue that they get along and might be a fun group to race with. The comrade among competitors is a big part of the fun for me. When the green flag drops, though, its go time no matter who you're friends with.

ProCoach

himself

Compared to DE's, racing costs wayyyy more - in both time and money. Lots of good advice in many threads regarding getting your budget together and sticking to it.

Be honest with your goals. If you just want to race for the competition and camaraderie, that's easy. If you have to win, get into a small class with 3 or fewer entries. There are lots of people that do both. If you want to be on the pointy end of the stick, you'll have to increase your budget and time commitment as you'll need to do a lot of things to be competitive (like data analysis, running/test setups, getting coaching, traveling to many races, etc etc).

Interestingly, if you look at the costs of the spec classes (that are intended to keep costs down) you'll see that operating costs quickly exceed 5 figures. On the cheap, the easy math is to budget $2K per race (for 1 set of sticker tires and entry fees). Add another $1K for travel/hotel, gas, food, etc. So around $3K per weekend. If you don't have any shop costs, you might get 3 races in before you break the $10K mark. If you budget 20K per year for racing, Figure 4-5 races. That's one every other month or so. [which is a pretty good season if you ask me.] Then, check to see what classes/organizations/series you can run 4-5 races without having to travel too far and you'll be golden.

-td

CCA

Yep, most Spec Miata (SM) races are well attended and you can run in SCCA Regional & Majors races and NASA races. Your opportunity to race them is high and you will always have someone to race against. Tires are the main consumable cost and to be up front you will need to be on fresh tire more frequently. That said, unless you are especially gifted, you won't be at the front for a while. Getting to the front in SM is difficult and takes commitment, hard work and time, often years. Spec Miata is VERY competitive and the guys up front are good. Hoosier is working on a new SM tire for the SCCA that should provide us a little more life.

You do have to study the rules book, GCR, and make sure your car is legal. I do not know of a "cheater class" of motors. However, as in any sport and any class in motorsports, there are those that exploit grey areas in the rules and those that will cheat. My engine builder builds championship winning motors. I know my dyno numbers are comparable to cars that win races, but I'm not at the front.., the driver still needs to improve. The drivers that are winning in the Regional races are likely also running in the mid to front pack at Majors races. In the Majors, the top 3, plus 1-2 random cars go through tech after the race. Tech can be very intrusive, i.e. your engine goes home in a box to be reassembled ($$). They work hard to have a car that will pass tech. Also, if a competitor thinks a car is a "cheat" they can protest the car and have the suspected area checked. So, most of the crap talk about "cheaters" is from folks that are trying to protect their ego over why they suck.

Mazda is also heavily involved in supporting Spec Miata and grassroots racers of their cars generally. You'd be hard press to find another auto manufacture as heavily involved. That helps in finding solutions to parts issues (failures, supply & cost), consultation with the SCCA & NASA to keep the class healthy and promotion of the series. Heck, Mazda paid to turn on the lights (and fireworks) at Daytona a few years ago at the SCCA Runnoffs Championship, so SM could star the night race. The downside to SM is that since the cars are so close to each other in Hp/Speed and the racing is so tight, that contact does often occur. It has improved greatly over it's "Spec Pinata" days and the SCCA & Mazda are working to improved it further. It's a cool class!

cobradvm

I'm right there with you - first things first though, is if you want to go racing, you need to get your license, which means going through a racing school. There appears to be a couple of ways to do this - you can go to a two day racing school and use their cars however that seems to be in the $3000-$4000 range, plus you need to do two check out races (not sure the exact term). The other option is to do it through PCA/POC/NASA etc - you will need your own car but will be less expensive. I like the idea of spending the money on your car rather than on the school that has their cars.

The enduro stuff I think would be a blast - I'm hoping to get on a Lucky Dog team for next year, but it's not going to be you driving your car in a sprint race.

So I'm looking at Spec Boxster or possibly Spec Cayman - there's a great thread that's almost 60 pages long that I'm still working through that gives a great insight to what Spec Boxster racing is all about. Racing is more about cameraderie than horsepower - the Boxster guys look like they are having a ton of fun even though they are driving hair dresser cars! The Spec Cayman series is relatively new, so there may be smaller fields to run in, however a lot of classes run together, so I think you will always have someone to compete with, even if they are not in your class. Just depends if you need to stand on a podium at the end or not.

http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-r...ter-build.html

pkh

Thanks for all the replies! Rather than mass multi quote will try to respond to main themes:

- Racing Porsches: I am in Portland, OR. From what I can tell the only series closest are based out of Bay Area which is ~10 hour drive from here. Whereas there are 4 great race tracks within ~2.5 hours that I can run other classes like Spec Miata, Spec Racer Ford, Pro3, etc..

- Supporting Gear (Truck/Trailer): Yep have a brand new enclosed trailer that I primarily got for camping out of during track weekends, but I had outfitted with an idea to get into racing eventually.

- Racing License: I have done Bondurant 5 day GP school, it was two years ago but I also did the Advanced Program last year. I think I should be able to qualify with these. Then again if I was going to enter a specific field like SPR or SM I might go into a school again just to get familiar with that platform.

- Costs and Winning: My main goal is not to win but to grow my skills and set new high water marks for myself. I have played the DE/lap time attack game for a few years now and its fun and I have done well in my area, but I had some taste of WTW Racing and its so exciting! I think I am being pretty realistic about costs, I just don't want to go down the wrong rabbit hole. I know enough to know that my DE car will always be an order of magnitude faster than whatever car I race in, can't afford to race truly fast cars.

If I could get away with a $30k year budget I think that would be on the high side but ok. I'd like to race at least 6 weekends per year.

Spec Miata / Cheater Class: Sorry "cheater class" probably a bit harsh, but their does seem to be whispers that people run non legal motors for regional races and then swap for Majors. There was this story from a few years ago where the top 7 competitors will all found to have cheater motors: https://jalopnik.com/so-many-spec-mi...lac-1645710255

Another example: I enquired about a local for sale spec Miata that had won some races. When I asked specifically about whether it was a legal car, I got no response. The whole built motor thing seems to be the problem, I wish it was sealed motor like SRF, but I understand that's not going to change. Sounds like people build motors to be fast but maybe they only last a season because of the way they are built (loose = fast?) I also could be over thinking it, like you say I am not likely to be a front runner in my first few years... I just don't want to be a sucker. Whole point is to be on equal footing.

This is my current favorite option though - so don't think my words are meant to discourage you from convincing me!

NASA: They pulled out of the PacNW a couple of years ago, not sure how far I'd have to go to race with them but its not close.

ICSCC: This is where I need help. I can see that spec Miata and Pro3 appear to be popular classes in this, but I see other car classes too. I'd imagine some cars you could run in multiple classes? Any suggestions on what I should aim for? I want many competitors but like the idea of Spec Miata alternatives. Also if I can get a car that would do well to race in this series and would also be a great endurance racer with Lucky Dog, even better! I think no matter what I am going to keep racing Lucky Dog, just too much fun.

Dr911

Something to consider: how competitive will your budget be?

In a recent webinar Jeff Braun and Ross Bentley pointed out the advantage of budget.

"Pick a racing class you can afford, and then drop down two classes (cost wise). This will guve you the largest budget in the class."

Pretty astute advice.

ajcjr

Frank 993 C4S

$30k/Yr is not much if that also includes practice and set-up days. It also depends whether you include gas, lodging and whether you will do you own track support, work with a coach, car prep, maintenance, unscheduled maintenance, damage allowance ..., it adds up fast.

There is cheating in every race series. If it bothers you, don't race.

pkh

My point in quoting an annual budget is not to set an absolute min/max, but just ballpark of what I am thinking. If I wreck the car obviously it's going to be more expensive that year. On the other hand I could rent seats at $1000 a weekend and spend a lot less money than that, or I could do full arrive and drive with fancy Porsches and spend more on a single race weekend. I was just talking to a crew getting ready for an endurance race that was going to cost the team in the order of 100k for a single race weekend.

So anyway we all know there is different levels of this, just trying to to set a number to aim at.

On the cheating remark, I am reminded of the quote: "There are two types of racers: cheaters and losers."