Need guidance. Want to start racing
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Need guidance. Want to start racing
Ive been doing DE events for several years and always enjoy them. But, I need more. Been fascinated with getting into wheel to wheel racing in some form and would like to get started searching for a possible whip next year. Ive looked at everything from spec Miata/boxster to many other BMWCCA/PCA, NASA, and SCCA classes. I have a SCCA competition license that will expire if I don't use it by next April. But don't mind going through the hoops to get a comp license in PCA, NASA, BMWCCA, or any other type. Initially thought id get an e92 M3 to slowly turn into a race car while doing DEs and gradually enter races. It seems that may not be a very cost effective or efficient way to get my thrill. I realize I will likely learn more about managing and balancing a car on track with a boxer or Miata, but I think I will get frustrated with the lack of power some of the other classes have. I may not. Maybe I'll love it as many out there do. I live in the midwest (KC) and there are a few tracks within 4-5 hours that participate in one or several or all of the sanctioning bodies I mentioned earlier. I have a truck and open trailer, so don't mind driving. But staying closer to home would be nice for most of the season, but I definitely want to venture out and do some of the big names... Sebring, Road America, VIR, COTA, Road Atlanta, etc. Only on occasion. So, other criteria that I think is important for me would be reasonable cost. Not cheap but not 991.2 GT3 cup car bucks. Reasonable for purchase and reasonable for maintaining with consumables. Im fairly mechanically inclined and can do most basic things like brakes, and other simple maintenance. I don't want to be rebuilding engines and transmissions every year if possible, so longevity of the big stuff would be nice. Also, I would like to be a relatively competitive group. Doesn't have to be the most popular, but nice to have more than a couple in the class to play with. I recently am interested in the Gen 2 (PDK) Spec Caymans, especially those that run in the GTB1 class. But there are few races in the midwest and seems to be only a PCA racing platform. I don't know what possible crossovers a GTB1 car would have into the classes of the other main sanctioning bodies. Same with the spec E46. To be honest, it seems a bit overwhelming with all the classes. Any suggestions?
#2
Racer
First:
- why are you wanting to go racing?
- what's your budget? It's MUCH more expensive than DE's
It's about the racing. Whether you're in a GT3 cup car or spec Miata, you're racing against others (similar cars) in your class. The racing is the fun. Consider how big the class will be that you run in. Who will service and set up the car? Your tire budget will be orders of magnitude more than DEs (tires are cheapest way to go fast).
There will always be competitors with more money.
Cheaters are for real.
It will cost more than you think.
Suggest doing a racing school. Consider a few races in a rent a ride. What do you know about setups? How much time do you want to spend working on the car?
- why are you wanting to go racing?
- what's your budget? It's MUCH more expensive than DE's
It's about the racing. Whether you're in a GT3 cup car or spec Miata, you're racing against others (similar cars) in your class. The racing is the fun. Consider how big the class will be that you run in. Who will service and set up the car? Your tire budget will be orders of magnitude more than DEs (tires are cheapest way to go fast).
There will always be competitors with more money.
Cheaters are for real.
It will cost more than you think.
Suggest doing a racing school. Consider a few races in a rent a ride. What do you know about setups? How much time do you want to spend working on the car?
#3
Three Wheelin'
I started racing in 1997-- a highly modified though still street legal 951. I purposely picked a few events where I knew some of the other racers, and I purposely started behind my quali positions to acquire race start situational awareness. For me, there were mixed marquee SCCA vintage events and NASA events. These types of "mixed marquee low key" opportunities still exist around here in Norcal.
I started racing my current car, a GT-classed 911, in 2002. Its first race was with a group I helped create-- all Porsches. The Porsche Racing Club. Still racing with this group today.
What I learned very early on is that my interest and passion, though very strong, is sensitive to the people with whom I race. That is, I feel that I most enjoy the experience with people I know, and whom, in my estimation are like-minded regarding risk. I'll call these family events.
Don't get me wrong, I have also enjoyed what I'll call "anonymous" all Porsche and mixed-marque racing from time to time (even at a few paid spectator events), but I think have always seemed to enjoy the family events better.
Another recent thread in this Forum kind of reflects that concept, at least regarding the distinction.
I am nearly certain that some areas have greater and some fewer choices.
I think my best advice is to get out there to some events during your decision-making process and absorb. Shake some hands, check out some cars, watch them qualify, race and interact. Especially after the gladiator part of the program-- the race.
You may learn that you prefer what I call anonymous racing, or family racing, or it matters not.
I started racing my current car, a GT-classed 911, in 2002. Its first race was with a group I helped create-- all Porsches. The Porsche Racing Club. Still racing with this group today.
What I learned very early on is that my interest and passion, though very strong, is sensitive to the people with whom I race. That is, I feel that I most enjoy the experience with people I know, and whom, in my estimation are like-minded regarding risk. I'll call these family events.
Don't get me wrong, I have also enjoyed what I'll call "anonymous" all Porsche and mixed-marque racing from time to time (even at a few paid spectator events), but I think have always seemed to enjoy the family events better.
Another recent thread in this Forum kind of reflects that concept, at least regarding the distinction.
I am nearly certain that some areas have greater and some fewer choices.
I think my best advice is to get out there to some events during your decision-making process and absorb. Shake some hands, check out some cars, watch them qualify, race and interact. Especially after the gladiator part of the program-- the race.
You may learn that you prefer what I call anonymous racing, or family racing, or it matters not.
Last edited by Mahler9th; 11-01-2018 at 12:17 AM.
#4
Rennlist Member
I'm in a similar boat. Was really excited about getting into a Radical, bought a spec miata instead because there were regular races here with them. Seems like find what most people nearby are racing regularly and go with it.
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
First:
- why are you wanting to go racing?
- what's your budget? It's MUCH more expensive than DE's
It's about the racing. Whether you're in a GT3 cup car or spec Miata, you're racing against others (similar cars) in your class. The racing is the fun. Consider how big the class will be that you run in. Who will service and set up the car? Your tire budget will be orders of magnitude more than DEs (tires are cheapest way to go fast).
There will always be competitors with more money.
Cheaters are for real.
It will cost more than you think.
Suggest doing a racing school. Consider a few races in a rent a ride. What do you know about setups? How much time do you want to spend working on the car?
- why are you wanting to go racing?
- what's your budget? It's MUCH more expensive than DE's
It's about the racing. Whether you're in a GT3 cup car or spec Miata, you're racing against others (similar cars) in your class. The racing is the fun. Consider how big the class will be that you run in. Who will service and set up the car? Your tire budget will be orders of magnitude more than DEs (tires are cheapest way to go fast).
There will always be competitors with more money.
Cheaters are for real.
It will cost more than you think.
Suggest doing a racing school. Consider a few races in a rent a ride. What do you know about setups? How much time do you want to spend working on the car?
I’m willing to spend up to $100k on a car but I think an ideal range would be in the $50-70k range. I realize that probably rules out a gen2 GTB1. I also understand that this is considerably more expensive than a weekend DE. I have a couple experienced mechanics in my area that I can utilize. And I can do somethings myself such as breaks. But suspension and other engine and chassis tunning would need to be done by someone experienced
As far as racing school. I’ve done Bondurant 4d school. The rent a ride concept is interesting. What tracks is this available at and with what company?
what do you mean by “setups”?
#6
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
i wonderhow the Miata and Boxster compared
#7
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Maybe I should just grab a built spec Miata or Boxster and hit it. If I don’t like it or love it and want to step up the following season I can do so without throwing away a massive chunk of coin
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#8
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I started racing in 1997-- a highly modified though still street legal 951. I purposely picked a few events where I knew some of the other racers, and I purposely started behind my quali positions to acquire race start situational awareness. For me, there were mixed marquee SCCA vintage events and NASA events. These types of "mixed marquee low key" opportunities still exist around here in Norcal.
I started racing my current car, a GT-classed 911, in 2002. Its first race was with a group I helped create-- all Porsches. The Porsche Racing Club. Still racing with this group today.
What I learned very early on is that my interest and passion, though very strong, is sensitive to the people with whom I race. That is, I feel that I most enjoy the experience with people I know, and whom, in my estimation are like-minded regarding risk. I'll call these family events.
Don't get me wrong, I have also enjoyed what I'll call "anonymous" all Porsche and mixed-marque racing from time to time (even at a few paid spectator events), but I think have always seemed to enjoy the family events better.
Another recent thread in this Forum kind of reflects that concept, at least regarding the distinction.
I am nearly certain that some areas have greater and some fewer choices.
I think my best advice is to get out there to some events during your decision-making process and absorb. Shake some hands, check out some cars, watch them qualify, race and interact. Especially after the gladiator part of the program-- the race.
You may learn that you prefer what I call anonymous racing, or family racing, or it matters not.
I started racing my current car, a GT-classed 911, in 2002. Its first race was with a group I helped create-- all Porsches. The Porsche Racing Club. Still racing with this group today.
What I learned very early on is that my interest and passion, though very strong, is sensitive to the people with whom I race. That is, I feel that I most enjoy the experience with people I know, and whom, in my estimation are like-minded regarding risk. I'll call these family events.
Don't get me wrong, I have also enjoyed what I'll call "anonymous" all Porsche and mixed-marque racing from time to time (even at a few paid spectator events), but I think have always seemed to enjoy the family events better.
Another recent thread in this Forum kind of reflects that concept, at least regarding the distinction.
I am nearly certain that some areas have greater and some fewer choices.
I think my best advice is to get out there to some events during your decision-making process and absorb. Shake some hands, check out some cars, watch them qualify, race and interact. Especially after the gladiator part of the program-- the race.
You may learn that you prefer what I call anonymous racing, or family racing, or it matters not.
#9
Drifting
If you want to race a Porsche 911, then PCA stock-E class is best, cheapest and largest class. 1978 thru 1989 SC and Carrera models.
Car counts are large, especially at Sebring, Watkins and Road America, usually 30+.
Car counts are large, especially at Sebring, Watkins and Road America, usually 30+.
#10
Rennlist Member
IMO, Spec Miata or Porsche 944 are the best race cars to start enjoying racing. Both cars are "neutral balanced" so the weight of the car is essentially equal front to back so the polar moment effect is minimized, ie a 911 has 60 % of its weight on the rear tires.
The first step is learning the racing line, far different than the DE driving line; car control; suspension set up, etc.
A momentum car, Spec Miata or Porsche 944 forces the driver to be a good race driver to be fast.
The great race drivers all started small and went bigger, not bigger first.
The first step is learning the racing line, far different than the DE driving line; car control; suspension set up, etc.
A momentum car, Spec Miata or Porsche 944 forces the driver to be a good race driver to be fast.
The great race drivers all started small and went bigger, not bigger first.
#11
Banned
The better driver you become (i.e. the less you brake and the better you maintain speed/momentum in turns) the less you will get frustrated with the lack of power. HP should be the least important parameter in your search. Listen to the market: Seek the series/classes with the largest fields in your area and buy a well built car to race there. This way you will always have someone to race with as your skill improves and if later you change your mind there will be a market to sell your car with a minimal loss (if any). Good luck!
#12
Rennlist Member
IMO, Spec Miata or Porsche 944 are the best race cars to start enjoying racing. Both cars are "neutral balanced" so the weight of the car is essentially equal front to back so the polar moment effect is minimized, ie a 911 has 60 % of its weight on the rear tires.
The first step is learning the racing line, far different than the DE driving line; car control; suspension set up, etc.
A momentum car, Spec Miata or Porsche 944 forces the driver to be a good race driver to be fast.
The great race drivers all started small and went bigger, not bigger first.
The first step is learning the racing line, far different than the DE driving line; car control; suspension set up, etc.
A momentum car, Spec Miata or Porsche 944 forces the driver to be a good race driver to be fast.
The great race drivers all started small and went bigger, not bigger first.
#13
Perfect Angel
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Remember that no matter what you race you need to be ready to leave it a mangled, smoking hulk of metal, glass and plastic in a tire wall somewhere.
Not trying to put you off just think about how much $$$ you are willing to walk away from.
As others have said, pick a class with larger fields at the tracks you think you'll travel too. E, SPB are big. Smaller but faster classes would be SPC and F.
Not trying to put you off just think about how much $$$ you are willing to walk away from.
As others have said, pick a class with larger fields at the tracks you think you'll travel too. E, SPB are big. Smaller but faster classes would be SPC and F.
#14
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Cadaver
Ive been doing DE events for several years and always enjoy them. But, I need more. Been fascinated with getting into wheel to wheel racing in some form and would like to get started searching for a possible whip next year. Ive looked at everything from spec Miata/boxster to many other BMWCCA/PCA, NASA, and SCCA classes. I have a SCCA competition license that will expire if I don't use it by next April. But don't mind going through the hoops to get a comp license in PCA, NASA, BMWCCA, or any other type. Initially thought id get an e92 M3 to slowly turn into a race car while doing DEs and gradually enter races. It seems that may not be a very cost effective or efficient way to get my thrill. I realize I will likely learn more about managing and balancing a car on track with a boxer or Miata, but I think I will get frustrated with the lack of power some of the other classes have. I may not. Maybe I'll love it as many out there do. I live in the midwest (KC) and there are a few tracks within 4-5 hours that participate in one or several or all of the sanctioning bodies I mentioned earlier. I have a truck and open trailer, so don't mind driving. But staying closer to home would be nice for most of the season, but I definitely want to venture out and do some of the big names... Sebring, Road America, VIR, COTA, Road Atlanta, etc. Only on occasion. So, other criteria that I think is important for me would be reasonable cost. Not cheap but not 991.2 GT3 cup car bucks. Reasonable for purchase and reasonable for maintaining with consumables. Im fairly mechanically inclined and can do most basic things like brakes, and other simple maintenance. I don't want to be rebuilding engines and transmissions every year if possible, so longevity of the big stuff would be nice. Also, I would like to be a relatively competitive group. Doesn't have to be the most popular, but nice to have more than a couple in the class to play with. I recently am interested in the Gen 2 (PDK) Spec Caymans, especially those that run in the GTB1 class. But there are few races in the midwest and seems to be only a PCA racing platform. I don't know what possible crossovers a GTB1 car would have into the classes of the other main sanctioning bodies. Same with the spec E46. To be honest, it seems a bit overwhelming with all the classes. Any suggestions?
#15
Rennlist Member
If you think a Miata or 944 is slow, wait until you crash one at speed. Only then will you realize how fast you were traveling. Things happen much faster in high HP cars. Work your way up. Learn to drive and become a student of the sport. And please get some open track experience before you go wheel to wheel. Go with an organization that doesn't require a point by so you get used to passing and being passed - off line, in a braking zone, etc. Or, you know, do it your way.