PCA Club Race Enduro 90, 180 or 360 minutes?
10-29-2018, 01:54 PM
#17
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MId-O would be super easy on tires. Toyos might even last there.
I would co-drive with Todd, but only if he sits on my lap. In that case I'd like 9 hours please.
I would co-drive with Todd, but only if he sits on my lap. In that case I'd like 9 hours please.
10-29-2018, 04:57 PM
#20
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10-29-2018, 09:34 PM
#21
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Money Talks...
Attendance is giving you all the information you need. Make all race weekends three to four 40-45min sprint races. Add a handful of enduros at the biggest venues. Make all races count for points. Ditch concurrent DE’s to maximize track time and minimize downtime for racers.
10-29-2018, 09:35 PM
#22
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Attendance is giving you all the information you need. Make all race weekends three to four 40-45min sprint races. Add a handful of enduros at the biggest venues. Make all races count for points. Ditch concurrent DE’s to maximize track time and minimize downtime for racers.
10-29-2018, 10:40 PM
#23
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As a former CR and current event DE chair, a few details to consider. DEs support Racing with paying for the track rental. 3hr/6hr Enduro will require much higher fees for racers to pay for track time vacated by DEs. The risk w/o DE increases for hosting club if racers fail to sign up/pay. More than a few CR/DE combos lose money on the Racers, but make enough profit on DE/A-DE to keep the combo positive or break even. A few big events could possibly do it, but then the longer Enduro across 2 or 3 enduros will need more track time than DEs could give up (Sebring / Daytona for example).
This doesn’t address how to make races that are looking to increase participation. The biggest venues, like Watkins Glen, Road America, Road Atlanta, etc., are not experiencing attendance issues. Smaller venues like Mid Ohio (not economically feasible as a club race weekend only) and Gingerman (cancelled the race in the past few years due to low attendance) need to include DE groups to conduct the Club Race or provide a race experience not found elsewhere.
I'd like to see one of the smaller venues experiment with an event that gives racers four 45-minute quality races, which really comes down to relatively evenly matched run groups, and gets them out by 3pm Sunday. Not saying it's the answer but the fact that attendance is declining at smaller events while the economy is going gangbusters suggests it's time to try something different.
10-30-2018, 10:01 AM
#24
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[QUOTE=Nizer;15396178]Understand the issues at hand. No easy answers and no one-size fits all solution for large and small venues. What I will say is the two main areas of complaint I hear about club racing is lack of track time and total time away from work and family with a race weekend, which are flip sides of the same coin. Guys I talk to would pay more for higher quality racing with less downtime. All I'm saying [QUOTE]
Well put and I agree. Why not try the Enduro format at some of the “big draw” tracks? I’ve raced AER for 3 years and the amount of track time is insane: 27 total hours, over 3 days, for $1900. Friday is 9 hours of practice and qualifying, while SAT and SUN are both 9 hour races. Car counts are there with Road Atlanta having 60, Watkins Glen 98, NJMP 60, and Mid Ohio 60. In 2018 the cars ranged from spec Miatas to a slew of e36 and e46 BMW, to 991 Cup, and Ferrari 488 Challenge.
Rule book is basically “run what ya brung”, really good driving, and organizers that shockingly treat you with respect. Imagine that. We have 3 drivers per weekend so basically $650 per guy for 9 hours of wheel to wheel. Nine hours at a typical PCA event would be 3 race weekends? 4? Oh and did I mention the organizers treat you with respect?........
Well put and I agree. Why not try the Enduro format at some of the “big draw” tracks? I’ve raced AER for 3 years and the amount of track time is insane: 27 total hours, over 3 days, for $1900. Friday is 9 hours of practice and qualifying, while SAT and SUN are both 9 hour races. Car counts are there with Road Atlanta having 60, Watkins Glen 98, NJMP 60, and Mid Ohio 60. In 2018 the cars ranged from spec Miatas to a slew of e36 and e46 BMW, to 991 Cup, and Ferrari 488 Challenge.
Rule book is basically “run what ya brung”, really good driving, and organizers that shockingly treat you with respect. Imagine that. We have 3 drivers per weekend so basically $650 per guy for 9 hours of wheel to wheel. Nine hours at a typical PCA event would be 3 race weekends? 4? Oh and did I mention the organizers treat you with respect?........
10-30-2018, 10:25 AM
#25
Drifting
Market says sprints and track time are way to go, not enduros. I'm with the market, no need for enduros.
Comment on the respect issue, I just raced at Sonoma, October 27/28. This was a NASA event with a single PCA run group. And a single PRC run group. But all within NASA. Big big difference from PCA east coast / midwest. NASA very customer oriented, very different from the PCA I've known - "...grant you the privilege of racing in PCA".
FWIW, the PCA people at Sonoma were quite a bit more relaxed than I've seen east.
PCA car counts are down. And going down. Hmmm.
Comment on the respect issue, I just raced at Sonoma, October 27/28. This was a NASA event with a single PCA run group. And a single PRC run group. But all within NASA. Big big difference from PCA east coast / midwest. NASA very customer oriented, very different from the PCA I've known - "...grant you the privilege of racing in PCA".
FWIW, the PCA people at Sonoma were quite a bit more relaxed than I've seen east.
PCA car counts are down. And going down. Hmmm.
10-30-2018, 12:54 PM
#26
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10-30-2018, 04:30 PM
#28
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10-30-2018, 09:53 PM
#29
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Thread Starter
The four sprints over two days is also a unique, intriguing idea. However, I don’t know enough about the PCA rules to comment on how that would impact the points awarded for the weekend.
I think we all can agree that new ideas would help drive attendance at some of the smaller club races. Thus, the point of the thread.
10-31-2018, 02:26 PM
#30
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Given the choice, I'd rather do 6x 30-40min sprints (with some rest in between) than a single 3-4hr enduro. Why voluntarily torture yourself and your car (and increase the risk of crashing from both exhaustion and mechanical failure) when no one is paying you to do it?
Also, every race should be a points race.