PCA rules: Requiring Arm Restraints for open roof cars during HPDE
11-01-2018, 11:02 AM
#31
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Connecticut Valley Region
Posts: 14,434
Received 3,190 Likes
on
1,564 Posts
11-01-2018, 11:18 AM
#32
Rennlist Member
There is actually video of this taking place. Starts around 17 second mark and not for the squeemish -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-_O7nl0Ii0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-_O7nl0Ii0
11-03-2018, 08:31 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Are you actually complaining about a safety device being required?
While the canvas top may not seem like much protection they are designed by serious engineer types to stay in place in an accident. A roof net provides similar protection.
No roof is no protection. The thin fiberglass fake roofs on some race cars are not designed by serious engineers to stay in place. They disintegrate. They are not protection.
And in our chapter, DE or race, the grid checks all your safety devices. All of them. Every time. Even of you are late for the session they don't let you roll on out to get track time. they stop you and check your safety devices.
You seem to have PCA specific issues. I think the answer to all your problems is pretty clear.
See the pictures at the end of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syw3q-H9-XY
While the canvas top may not seem like much protection they are designed by serious engineer types to stay in place in an accident. A roof net provides similar protection.
No roof is no protection. The thin fiberglass fake roofs on some race cars are not designed by serious engineers to stay in place. They disintegrate. They are not protection.
And in our chapter, DE or race, the grid checks all your safety devices. All of them. Every time. Even of you are late for the session they don't let you roll on out to get track time. they stop you and check your safety devices.
You seem to have PCA specific issues. I think the answer to all your problems is pretty clear.
See the pictures at the end of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syw3q-H9-XY
Hello Streak,
I think you gave the perfect answer, thanks.
Using my usual "not so good English”, sorry for that, it is not my mother tongue), I may add to your statement, i.e.: Yes, “No roof is no protection”,
..but at least, you get this truth/vision permanently ! (Having a "skin roof", that as you wrote would disintegrate, beside the risk of being hit by the debris, it could also provide a false safety feeling that could be a dangerous one to have.
Altogether, you are at the source of my point : Why such "unsafe roof" let you be without arm restraints, and no roof put you in the obligation of A.R. ?
Again, if we think pure safety, I could agree that arm restraints could provide a plus, but this ..not only on open roof car.
My problem (i.e.: PCA or not, is simply irrelevant at this level) is that until now my perception is that AR makes me feel “handcuffed”, or, in my feeling, removing a good part of my freedom, or : the pleasure to be in a car, driving on a track.
And this, up to a question that I still have : If you force me to do that : Do I want to comply, ..or simply give up ?
In my view, when doing track days (important to mention : for the pleasure, not for racing), I agree that safety is important, but also safety, like anything down to Earth, has its limit.
And while, I have been used Hans (and having harness on my fun/track car) as something that wanted as a self decision for my safety, I still cannot make that step for ARs !
A comment about the video you posted : Yes, this is extremely scary.
And I’m also 100% convinced that it is “easy to do”, even at speed in the range of 50 mph.
How many drivers do know that if you are on any roads, and for whatever reason, you end with two wheels on grass, soil or any “soft” base, while the two other wheels are still on asphalt, braking on such situation is a serious ticket for bad rolls ?
Also, may be this very hard to see video that you post, is one that also say : on track, if you want to divide the risks by two, ..NEVER take any passenger (exception for instructors).
Glad to read that both of you made it through without major injuries.
About one of the most crazy and scary roll (one that would say that I’m wrong when I say that on rolls, “..before being on the roof, you are on the side !”) is Yannick Dalmas in Road Atlanta with a GT1 in 1998. (Well, ..it is technically a “flip”, ..not a roll !)
11-04-2018, 08:55 AM
#34
Perfect Angel
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Hello Streak,
.
Altogether, you are at the source of my point : Why such "unsafe roof" let you be without arm restraints, and no roof put you in the obligation of A.R. ?
Again, if we think pure safety, I could agree that arm restraints could provide a plus, but this ..not only on open roof car.
.
Altogether, you are at the source of my point : Why such "unsafe roof" let you be without arm restraints, and no roof put you in the obligation of A.R. ?
Again, if we think pure safety, I could agree that arm restraints could provide a plus, but this ..not only on open roof car.
Let me be clear: The only time you are not required to wear AR is with the factory roof or a roof net. The shell that is on my race car requires me to use AR. I use AR. All the time.
If you cannot accept wearing AR then run with the top up, run with another club or run a car with a roof.
Last edited by Streak; 11-04-2018 at 01:45 PM.
11-04-2018, 10:07 AM
#35
Rennlist Member
AR, like anything, just require a bit of time to get used to. And then you don't even notice them. I keep a set in my bag at all times, you never know what you might drive at the track.
If GVA-SFO has a libertarian streak re. his arm freedom then he can run with another organization and be content with a potential catastrophic arm injury and/or amputation.
Most arm injuries are treatable to some degree but there's no cure for stupid.
If GVA-SFO has a libertarian streak re. his arm freedom then he can run with another organization and be content with a potential catastrophic arm injury and/or amputation.
Most arm injuries are treatable to some degree but there's no cure for stupid.
11-04-2018, 10:50 AM
#36
on this AR topic are there choices on roof nets? Who makes them? Any special do's and dont's or are they just strapped on like a centernet onto the 4 roof bars?
Google rollcage roof net or racecar roof net basically nothing come up to buy.
Google rollcage roof net or racecar roof net basically nothing come up to buy.
11-04-2018, 11:00 AM
#37
Rennlist Member
11-04-2018, 11:40 AM
#38
Rennlist Member
At a minimum street cars should have the option to run with the windows up and use blinkers as point by’s, as is mandatory at all track events in the ROW.
Advanced groups should have a good talking to about Hans and harness.
Advanced groups should have a good talking to about Hans and harness.
11-04-2018, 12:38 PM
#39
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I’m going to have to order some more popcorn.
11-04-2018, 01:39 PM
#40
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Connecticut Valley Region
Posts: 14,434
Received 3,190 Likes
on
1,564 Posts
11-04-2018, 02:57 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
11-04-2018, 06:41 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
11-04-2018, 10:07 PM
#44
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Connecticut Valley Region
Posts: 14,434
Received 3,190 Likes
on
1,564 Posts
11-04-2018, 10:39 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
