NOLA "Go Fast" Driver Death
10-03-2018, 07:05 PM
#46
That was a comment about having instructors ride along on certain tracks where cars are capable of these speeds. Especially since there are complete novice drivers who can buy 200+ mph cars and show up at a track day without a clue on what they're doing.
But maybe I miss read something along the way...
10-03-2018, 07:56 PM
#47
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He was actually experienced but his car was not prepared for a mechanical malfunction. The best driver's in the world still crash and lack of skill isn't the only reason it happens. Track guys lose their brakes and crash also going into 40 mph corners from 160 with little more than a helmet for safety gear. There are plenty of HPDE guys here I'm sure with 500+ HP cars with no cage on this forum.
I honestly think he would have survived if he had a cage, nets or restraints, 6 point. I went into a wall at 140 mph in a driver's side inoaim and walked away. Rolling isn't as bad as a sudden stop.
I honestly think he would have survived if he had a cage, nets or restraints, 6 point. I went into a wall at 140 mph in a driver's side inoaim and walked away. Rolling isn't as bad as a sudden stop.
10-03-2018, 07:57 PM
#48
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Exactly. I was there in Feb of 2015 for a 1 day Skip Barber racing school (before they went bankrupt) in their open wheel Formula cars. The track config we used turned right just before where he went off track. The track was bumpy then and the section he drove on after the parachute failed looked bumpier than what I remember seeing. I've heard the track overall has gotten bumpier. Also many of us saw the IndyCar race that demonstrated the dips all over the track with associated non-existent drainage. It was built on a landfill IIRC. Not stable substrate in any case. His car as set up wouldn't handle side loads in a controllable manner, certainly not side loads at 200+ MPH. Very sad situation for the friends and family. Having said all that, every time I watch drag boats I wonder why they take the risks, and they are high on the water when the slightest instability causes a boat to catch water just the wrong way. Don't see anyone stepping in to stop drag boats.
10-04-2018, 10:19 AM
#49
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He was actually experienced but his car was not prepared for a mechanical malfunction. The best driver's in the world still crash and lack of skill isn't the only reason it happens. Track guys lose their brakes and crash also going into 40 mph corners from 160 with little more than a helmet for safety gear. There are plenty of HPDE guys here I'm sure with 500+ HP cars with no cage on this forum.
I honestly think he would have survived if he had a cage, nets or restraints, 6 point. I went into a wall at 140 mph in a driver's side inoaim and walked away. Rolling isn't as bad as a sudden stop.
I honestly think he would have survived if he had a cage, nets or restraints, 6 point. I went into a wall at 140 mph in a driver's side inoaim and walked away. Rolling isn't as bad as a sudden stop.
No offense but I don't think comparing 140 mph to 216 mph (glancing wall or even straight into a wall at 140 vs. his extreme forces of spinning / tumbling / twisting at 216 mph).
I'm not saying he wouldn't have survived with much better safety equipment, but at almost twice the speed of your crash, I don't think they're comparable.
Either way, his chute didn't deploy.. Cord broke according to what I read. Skills or not, pro or not.. I think that would have caused anyone to panic.
10-04-2018, 11:40 AM
#50
Drifting
Exactly. I was there in Feb of 2015 for a 1 day Skip Barber racing school (before they went bankrupt) in their open wheel Formula cars. The track config we used turned right just before where he went off track. The track was bumpy then and the section he drove on after the parachute failed looked bumpier than what I remember seeing. I've heard the track overall has gotten bumpier. Also many of us saw the IndyCar race that demonstrated the dips all over the track with associated non-existent drainage. It was built on a landfill IIRC. Not stable substrate in any case. His car as set up wouldn't handle side loads in a controllable manner, certainly not side loads at 200+ MPH. Very sad situation for the friends and family. Having said all that, every time I watch drag boats I wonder why they take the risks, and they are high on the water when the slightest instability causes a boat to catch water just the wrong way. Don't see anyone stepping in to stop drag boats.
10-04-2018, 12:28 PM
#51
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No offense but I don't think comparing 140 mph to 216 mph (glancing wall or even straight into a wall at 140 vs. his extreme forces of spinning / tumbling / twisting at 216 mph).
I'm not saying he wouldn't have survived with much better safety equipment, but at almost twice the speed of your crash, I don't think they're comparable.
Either way, his chute didn't deploy.. Cord broke according to what I read. Skills or not, pro or not.. I think that would have caused anyone to panic.
I'm not saying he wouldn't have survived with much better safety equipment, but at almost twice the speed of your crash, I don't think they're comparable.
Either way, his chute didn't deploy.. Cord broke according to what I read. Skills or not, pro or not.. I think that would have caused anyone to panic.
The point is this was a survivable crash with saftey equipment. Driver's have survived much higher speed crashes at Bonneville.
10-04-2018, 12:42 PM
#52
Should these types of events have improved safety? Probably.
But the point of this event is to let people experience high speeds in a controlled environment and discourage road racing. We risk our lives every time we climb into a car. At least this single car crash occurred at the end of a racetrack and not into innocent civilians on public roads.
10-04-2018, 12:42 PM
#53
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Exactly. I was there in Feb of 2015 for a 1 day Skip Barber racing school (before they went bankrupt) in their open wheel Formula cars. The track config we used turned right just before where he went off track. The track was bumpy then and the section he drove on after the parachute failed looked bumpier than what I remember seeing. I've heard the track overall has gotten bumpier. Also many of us saw the IndyCar race that demonstrated the dips all over the track with associated non-existent drainage. It was built on a landfill IIRC. Not stable substrate in any case. His car as set up wouldn't handle side loads in a controllable manner, certainly not side loads at 200+ MPH. Very sad situation for the friends and family. Having said all that, every time I watch drag boats I wonder why they take the risks, and they are high on the water when the slightest instability causes a boat to catch water just the wrong way. Don't see anyone stepping in to stop drag boats.
As a racer I can't imagine he wasn't completely aware of the track conditions and the first time we race at a particular venue we watch video, we analyse the track, and we take it easy on the first run.
I suspect he had his hand on the shute pull, it failed, slammed the brakes, and it veared to the right. He was already to the right so there wasn't much room before a tire grabbed dirt. I think after watching this, most of would have crashed. Hopefully the other racers now take their saftey more serious.
10-04-2018, 01:42 PM
#54
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looked like when he got off track, that is what got him in trouble. even with a parachute failure, keeping it straight and using brakes willl stop you MUCH faster than tumbling end over end or spinning
10-04-2018, 04:49 PM
#55
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I just drove NOLA motorsports park for two 8 hour endurance races this past weekend, I don't recall it being bumpy at all but the section where he went off isn't part of the road course as the front straight turns right at T1 and I believe the strip where he went off is between T1 and T6.
10-04-2018, 06:00 PM
#56
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Might want to check you're math there but you're just wrong comparing a sudden stop vs tumble even if it's a 54 percent faster crash. My personal crash was nearly 25g. It's the sudden stop that's more leathal than dispersing loads over time.
The point is this was a survivable crash with saftey equipment. Driver's have survived much higher speed crashes at Bonneville.
The point is this was a survivable crash with saftey equipment. Driver's have survived much higher speed crashes at Bonneville.
I agreed about the safety equip. Point is, with what he had / used, I'm not sure it's comapable.
His stomach exploded..Not to mention his arm / hand and the head / helmet being found a long way from the car.
10-05-2018, 09:12 AM
#57
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I've been in a couple bad crashes and it's honestly hard to explain to someone what a near 25G impact feels like but you are strapped in so tightly with a 6 point, a full containment seat really limits your movement in an impact, the Hans keeps your head attached, and as hard as I held my arms to my chest, at impact they were into the net. I actually fractured my arm and dislocated my thumb which I'll happily accept. All these items are designed to slow you down less suddenly and they work.
The injuries he suffered had so much to do with him being loose in the car. So much load would have been on his lap belt and rolling sideways the shoulder belt wasn't going to work very well to contain him.
We need to keep kids and people from racing on the street so I have mixed feelings about forcing safety equipment for an event like this but if people die then I'm sure the costs will sky rocket for event insurance.
At what point do we force common sense on competitors? To have a chance at surviving this incident it would have basically needed to be prepped like a wheel to wheel race car and I don't see many of these guys doing that. Are there pics of the car after the crash?
10-05-2018, 09:47 AM
#58
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Not sure why the video isnt imbeded but 260 mph crash with saftey equipment and walked away.
Last edited by Philement; 10-05-2018 at 09:52 AM. Reason: Video link didn't embee
10-08-2018, 12:51 PM
#59
Instructor
We need to keep kids and people from racing on the street so I have mixed feelings about forcing safety equipment for an event like this but if people die then I'm sure the costs will sky rocket for event insurance.
At what point do we force common sense on competitors? To have a chance at surviving this incident it would have basically needed to be prepped like a wheel to wheel race car and I don't see many of these guys doing that. Are there pics of the car after the crash?
At what point do we force common sense on competitors? To have a chance at surviving this incident it would have basically needed to be prepped like a wheel to wheel race car and I don't see many of these guys doing that. Are there pics of the car after the crash?
The promoters need to require safety cages and harnesses in any car with more than x HP or any competitor/ participant that exceeds xxx mph on a pass. As your HP increases or your top speed increases, so does the required safety equipment. NHRA and other regular drag race groups already have these policies in effect. If your drive a street car to a Friday night drag race, you are allowed to participate with OEM safety belts. If you ever break a time minimum on your pass, they require you to start adding safety equipment to your car.
These 1/2 mile and greater promoters are more of a fly by night, new on the race scene, situation. No real sanctioning body, yet. The insurers will be making changes as claims increase.
10-09-2018, 02:19 PM
#60
Drifting
The lawyers will force it by making someone rich from this and causing someone (the promoters) to go out of business. The insurers should have mandated specific safety requirements as they do for SCCA type events and weekend drag races. They mandate the use of roll cages and safety harnesses via the premiums they charge. Anyone that complains about racing insurance should consider how high the premiums would be without the required cages and harnesses. This will be an expensive lesson for the promoters and for their insurers.
The promoters need to require safety cages and harnesses in any car with more than x HP or any competitor/ participant that exceeds xxx mph on a pass. As your HP increases or your top speed increases, so does the required safety equipment. NHRA and other regular drag race groups already have these policies in effect. If your drive a street car to a Friday night drag race, you are allowed to participate with OEM safety belts. If you ever break a time minimum on your pass, they require you to start adding safety equipment to your car.
These 1/2 mile and greater promoters are more of a fly by night, new on the race scene, situation. No real sanctioning body, yet. The insurers will be making changes as claims increase.
The promoters need to require safety cages and harnesses in any car with more than x HP or any competitor/ participant that exceeds xxx mph on a pass. As your HP increases or your top speed increases, so does the required safety equipment. NHRA and other regular drag race groups already have these policies in effect. If your drive a street car to a Friday night drag race, you are allowed to participate with OEM safety belts. If you ever break a time minimum on your pass, they require you to start adding safety equipment to your car.
These 1/2 mile and greater promoters are more of a fly by night, new on the race scene, situation. No real sanctioning body, yet. The insurers will be making changes as claims increase.