have R7's changed? disturbing grooving
#76
Rennlist Hoonigan
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Now, that is some cool technology. i might guess it is measuring rim temperature, unless it has something that measures the air in the tire, like a filament, or some type of orifice that generates an air flow through it.. pressure sensors are pretty common now, as we all have them on newer street cars. Again, didnt mean to start a ruckus, but i thought it was interesting to see a 14psi pressure growth with someone's tires, and was curuious how internal temps were measured. so, Paul might this access to tire air temps? Again, its interesting, because ive polled a bunch of friends today regarding their starting and ending pressures and no one has come back with anything over 10psi. what have you seen?
I forgot to mention a clarification to your comment about never seeing a "140F " tracktemp.... I was talking about asphalt temps. (pointing the IR gun on the asphalt). usually when its about 100 to 110 degrees, you can see this kind of temps on the track. still , tire temps were (surface tread) were under 180-200F in the hot pit area.
I forgot to mention a clarification to your comment about never seeing a "140F " tracktemp.... I was talking about asphalt temps. (pointing the IR gun on the asphalt). usually when its about 100 to 110 degrees, you can see this kind of temps on the track. still , tire temps were (surface tread) were under 180-200F in the hot pit area.
I know all about track temps and it's influence on asphalt and it's grip. I have an IR sensor on my car aimed at the track. I can tell you all about how high they get, where they get it, and what it does to grip levels (in general). Different asphalt mixes perform differently at different temps.
#77
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And here is a link to the McLaren sensor specs https://www.mclaren.com/appliedtechn...tpms-ir-array/
#78
Rennlist Member
Mark, you're making this tedious. Yes, the sensors measure internal tire air temp. Yes, they have a sensor just for that. Yes, some are influenced by rim temp, many are not. I have no idea what Paul has access to. I'm talking from my direct experience and data I have seen. I am friends with a bunch of DAGs that have this data from many teams, levels of racing, and different cars. I am also friends with the people that instrument cars for the tire companies and do the tire testing.
I know all about track temps and it's influence on asphalt and it's grip. I have an IR sensor on my car aimed at the track. I can tell you all about how high they get, where they get it, and what it does to grip levels (in general). Different asphalt mixes perform differently at different temps.
I know all about track temps and it's influence on asphalt and it's grip. I have an IR sensor on my car aimed at the track. I can tell you all about how high they get, where they get it, and what it does to grip levels (in general). Different asphalt mixes perform differently at different temps.
And here is a link to the McLaren sensor specs https://www.mclaren.com/appliedtechn...tpms-ir-array/
Board Temperature
•
On board PTC temperature sensor
•
Temperature sensor range -10°C to +190°C
•
Temperature resolution 0.17°
•
On board PTC temperature sensor
•
Temperature sensor range -10°C to +190°C
•
Temperature resolution 0.17°
#81
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by mark kibort
Actually i do. I've seen you drive.... You think you are a racer? you get confused by a simple Gas Law chart, so i suspect you dont have much engineering education.. you being a scientist, (My wife was a scientist/ genetic engineer and didnt know much about tire pressures either, so dont feel bad ) You would think that this would be fairly straight forward for you . But one thing for sure, you dont have manners! maybe you should consider a finishing school.
Everyone prepare for the next graph of why Mark shouldn't have to take his meds.
#82
Rennlist Member
My racing record stands for itself, it's probably a fare bit better than yours. I've seen your videos too, and you always seem to be holding onto a piece of your car. When are you going to fix that piece of ****? You still haven't answered my question. I know, I know. You don't think anything's wrong with you - it's the rest of us who aren't right.
Everyone prepare for the next graph of why Mark shouldn't have to take his meds.
Everyone prepare for the next graph of why Mark shouldn't have to take his meds.
i ask a valid question and suddenly you are a doctor? You act like someone that has a few metal defective issues. Again, crawl back under that rock from which you came. this is a place to talk about cars, not your personal mouth diarrhea dump ground
Now, here is a reality check for you. You are 10 seconds slower a lap, You dont run the Hoosiers in the sizes we are talking about, you have absolutely nothing to contribute, but when you do, please get off your knucklehead 8th grader/internet bully rampage and try and contribute something constructive, or just go away. in other words............ grow up!
Last edited by mark kibort; 09-20-2018 at 03:39 AM.
#84
I’ve also been seeing the same patterns on my R7s. Last three sets, none before that. I WAS getting some rubbing, confirmed with painter tape on the fender, but this makes me wonder. I have a separate thread here on tires cracking, but that was just one pair of tires with a 2017 date code and Hoosier should be looking at them by now.
I also start at about 27-28 cold, trying not to go over 38 to 40 on the first session, and taking it easy on the first few laps. Have to blend down a couple sessions before things are stable at 36 hot, square. But I’ve been doing exactly this for a few years and this pattern just recently started.
I also start at about 27-28 cold, trying not to go over 38 to 40 on the first session, and taking it easy on the first few laps. Have to blend down a couple sessions before things are stable at 36 hot, square. But I’ve been doing exactly this for a few years and this pattern just recently started.
#85
Rennlist Member
We are talking hoosiers, are you? Maybe its the small size that might be a difference. could be more moist air ... i assure you , I'm going faster than Paul, in a heavier car with more power, so its not a speed thing. It's the reason i asked. In my group of the fastest car out there at the club races, we are not seeing more than about 7-8psi pressure change and im curious as to why . Ill have to ping my spec miata friends to see if they are seeing higher pressure rises. Also, overdriving the tires can introduce a lot more heat too.. there are a lot of factors. its a side issue.. MIke is making it into a fight. i agree with Paul, if he is seeing 220 internal tire air temps, then that explains much of it. my only question is how. not a fight. just a question.
#86
Rennlist Member
Rick Here is what is sad....., dont be a small man... Look, it's clearly Mike and his inadequacies posting and d-railing. HE STARTS at POST #20.... all i asked was how those temps were see by a Paul.... I also was giving my experience with about 30 sets this season with my group of racers buds of the same tire and size..... and your post is" on course"??
#87
Rennlist Member
Haha ....It might be, but the fact that we have seen the same temp rise at Sonoma, Thunderhill, buttonwillow, willlow springs auto club speedway AND Road America, might work against that hypothesis.
are you running the same sizes as discussed here? 295, 315 or 335? How do your accross tire temps look? i know we all found that over 33psi, and the centers are hoter than both outside temp measuring points. at 30-32, it is progressive inner to outer about 5-8 degrees per section.
I’ve also been seeing the same patterns on my R7s. Last three sets, none before that. I WAS getting some rubbing, confirmed with painter tape on the fender, but this makes me wonder. I have a separate thread here on tires cracking, but that was just one pair of tires with a 2017 date code and Hoosier should be looking at them by now.
I also start at about 27-28 cold, trying not to go over 38 to 40 on the first session, and taking it easy on the first few laps. Have to blend down a couple sessions before things are stable at 36 hot, square. But I’ve been doing exactly this for a few years and this pattern just recently started.
I also start at about 27-28 cold, trying not to go over 38 to 40 on the first session, and taking it easy on the first few laps. Have to blend down a couple sessions before things are stable at 36 hot, square. But I’ve been doing exactly this for a few years and this pattern just recently started.
#88
Rennlist Member
Guess its time to post the link to Hoosier's tech note on how to car for A7 and R7 tires ---> http://www.hoosiertire.com/images/co...s/TCTR7_A7.pdf
The highlights -
The highlights -
- Cars over 3000 pounds should run 36-40+ hot. Hoosier states the tire may 'feel' better at lower pressure but damage is occurring to the tire.
- Morning temps below 60F require even more pressure than the stated cold pressure's
- Never lower the tire back down to the cold pressure's. For a 3000+ car they should START at 30-34
since I started the thread, I'll be clear. Thanks for the info. I get what Hoosier says and I acknowledge that there's a big difference between what Hoosier "recommends" and what the majority of their users do in terms of pressures they run. (I've actually had friends talk to Hoosier engineers at the track and question them on their printed pressures and those engineers have essentially said they quote them high for CYA and to increase tread longevity.)
I've never asked Hoosier to pick up the tab for anything.
I will likely switch brands for a while. Just looking for feedback from others running Hoosiers.
I've never asked Hoosier to pick up the tab for anything.
I will likely switch brands for a while. Just looking for feedback from others running Hoosiers.
My post was not directed at anyone person, but rather anyone using lower pressure's than what is recommended. I use the recommended pressure's, always have. I personally don't see these issue's and neither do my customers that run the correct pressure's. I have customers that choose not to use the correct pressure's and constantly see issues with their tires, just like these issue's here and other issue's. The moral of the story is, use as intended to get intended results. Anything other than that is liable to fail as you and others have experienced.
So, to add to your data point, I have 5 cars running Hoosiers that are fast enough drivers to use the tire and not experience this issue in about 30 sets of tires this year so far. of the 3 that choose to do their own thing, they have had 5-8 tire failure's.
So, to add to your data point, I have 5 cars running Hoosiers that are fast enough drivers to use the tire and not experience this issue in about 30 sets of tires this year so far. of the 3 that choose to do their own thing, they have had 5-8 tire failure's.
#89
Rennlist Member
I run the 315 tire. always start at 32 psi and cut my first session short to bleed down to 37-38 where they stay throughout the day. This is on a 996 GT3. My tires, at 38 psi, on my GT3 will allow the car to run 1:58 at WGI. I typically get 32-36 HC out of a set of Hoosiers and never have seen these wear pattern's.
And yes, I have seen a 14 psi change in a tire running at WGI before.
And yes, I have seen a 14 psi change in a tire running at WGI before.
#90
Rennlist Member
I run the 315 tire. always start at 32 psi and cut my first session short to bleed down to 37-38 where they stay throughout the day. This is on a 996 GT3. My tires, at 38 psi, on my GT3 will allow the car to run 1:58 at WGI. I typically get 32-36 HC out of a set of Hoosiers and never have seen these wear pattern's.
And yes, I have seen a 14 psi change in a tire running at WGI before.
And yes, I have seen a 14 psi change in a tire running at WGI before.
as a note.. this is on the GT3, which is rear engine obviously and with the higher weight in the rear , this might effect pressure required . Are you also talking about your much smaller front tires too?
heck, maybe we *everyone i know* has it all wrong. illl try what you are doing for the first practice session and see how it feels. i have done this before, however.. i forgot to air down, tires were set at 30psi cold and i ended up at 38psi and the car was skaty as all heck........lowered to 32psi and things were back to normal... i think many here have done the same thing, especially the cars we are talking about . Vets, my car, mustangs, etc, that use this tire on all 4 corners.
so you are saying, a 3000lb , 1:58 car at WG can have tires that last a full 8 race season? that is amazing.
Last edited by mark kibort; 09-20-2018 at 02:33 PM. Reason: spelling