anthony42hat

Hey guys, I know there are numerous threads on tires but I think tire decisions are quite subjective and vary depending on circumstances so here is yet another post. I have a 997.1 2S with about 43,000 miles that currently has Bridgestone S04's on it and the rears need to be replaced. I drive about 2-3000 miles a year and almost never in the rain (obviously not a DD) and will do 4 track events this season. The S04's have served me well...durable, fairly quiet, surprising grip for their durability and a good price point. Now my quandary. I am focusing more and more on my track days and improving (moved to blue last weekend) and have pretty much found the limits of these tires. Now I'm wondering if I should buy a set of rears of the same tires since the fronts still have some life in them or buy a whole new set of more track focused tires that can handle light street duty, especially since I have two more DE events this season and I would really like to maximize track performance. I guess there is one more option and that would be to buy another set of rims (maybe 18"?) and put a set of NT01's on those and throw them on for track events (I do drive to the track...2.5 hours to Summit Pt and 2.5 hours to VIR). I would really prefer this option but would like to do it at my leisure and my own pace so this is my end goal but not viable right now. So...new rears of the same tire or new, more aggressive tires and if so, which tire? RE-71R? RS4? AD08? Sport Cup 2? I appreciate your candid advice on this.

stujelly

if you want to maximize track experience buy a set of 18 inch wheels and run hoosier R7.
Any chance you can have a buddy haul your race wheels to the track?
The hooseir are a great entry into the world of race slicks but they are still DOT complaint

Blue Chip

So the right answer (IMO) is to get another set of wheels for track use...

But I want to back up for a second about something that you said - "You've found the limit of the tires" and that you just moved to the Blue group. Respectfully, and not knowing anything of your driving - however knowing a significant amount about the limits of the SO4's (I had 2 sets of them on my 997 as I progressed through the ranks) - I'd say that the limits of the S04's are significantly further than you think they are. I found that staying on streets helped with car control as I was learning to rotate the car and made my advanced transition much smoother. For reference - and your mileage may vary - but I didn't move off of streets until well into white. Even then - I went from S04's to Pilot Sports, then to NT01's...

I'd say - start considering a second set of wheels and replace the S04's. While you're wheel shopping - you should start to look for open trailers and a truck to pull.... wait a year,, then a dedicated track car. Just sayin....

anthony42hat

I really appreciate your feedback on this, especially since you've tracked the S04's. The reason I say I have found the limits of the tires is because in a couple of sections of both VIR and Summit Point (the chute comes to mind) my instructors are telling me I am taking a couple of corners or sections pretty much at the limits of the tires. I am certainly not a driving phenom but I am always one of, if not the fastest car in the group...even when there are much higher hp cars in the group. I think you are right...I think I need to stay on street tires for a while longer. So...what tire would you recommend?

zedcat

I've driven to/from track ( 1 to 6 hour drives) on Cup 2s, AD08, RS-3 (RS4 predecessor), NT01, Mich Supersports, RE71s, few others. For a tire that's good on track and ok for the drive there and back I would go with the RE71.

Blue Chip

Bang for the buck, track, street, rain, wet, and BUDGET - I really liked the S04's.... they were consistently my 'go to.'

I'll say this - the Yokohama AD08R's will force you to learn REALLY fast about how to spin. I found them to be wildly unpredictable, non-linear, and generally not very good at anything. Supposedly the Sport Pilot 3 (?) are decent as well but I have no experience....

anthony42hat

Really appreciate the input guys. Anyone else care to weigh in??

911 Rod

Nothing wrong with driving a tire past it's grip. Teaches you how to drive. If your car feels like it is on rails, you are not going fast enough. (Assuming you want to go faster)
I'd also ask the other guys at the track what they are running.

alexaqui

I ran S04s on my 997.2 for the street. They are terrific. Once you drive them hard though the tread pattern will chunk and they're just not as good as a more track focused tire.

I hope the person suggesting Hoosiers was jesting, because intermediates/beginners shouldn't be on those.

I used to really like the RE11R. Bridgestone just came out with a successor that may be worth looking at. The S007. Sits between the high grip RE71R and the S004. I currently run the RE71R and love them for track use.

As for comments for the instructor telling you you are near the limits of grip, take that with a grain of salt. Most instructors do not want you to bin the car and/or get hurt!

anthony42hat

Good advice, thanks.

anthony42hat

I really don't think the S04's get enough love as a great street tire...they really are terrific.
No way I'm messing with Hoosiers yet!
Was not aware of the S007, just checked on it at Tirerack and my sizes aren't available. I've heard good things about the RE71R...do you think there would be enough durability to make the tire last 2-3 DE events and a couple thousand miles of street driving?
Fair enough on the instructor comments. I will tell you though, I scared myself at how fast I was able to go through the chute at Summit Point...holy sh*t! I know all of you experienced guys go much faster but it was really eye opening. These cars are very capable.
Appreciate your comments!

Matt Lane

I'd really recommend staying on street tires for absolutely as long as possible. Just off the top of my head:

1. They talk to you and will let you audibly and tractionally know what you and the your car are doing.
2,. They have a grip level more appropriate to a street car suspension. Even then, you will eventually exceed you alignment's capacity to keep them from roasting the outside - and stickier tires will only make that worse. This is usually the most overlooked part of the equation - more grip creates a host of issues, complications and compromises (thousands and thousands of dollars worth). Really.
3. It's DE - more tire won't make you a better driver, probably the opposite.
4. If you do about 8 days on track a year on a dual use car, you'd honestly be needlessly complicating your life with extra wheels, etc.
5. A good street tire will have good wet performance, at least for a while, if that matters to you. Here we get some wet track from time to time and it's good to be able to learn with the reduced traction - but you'll need good street tires with proper tread to do that.

The Michelins (new 4S, or outgoing SuperSport) are outstanding, quality tires. The new Conti Extreme Contact is a close (and better priced) copy of the latter. The Michelins are probably the best you can buy, and interestingly, a lot ligher than similar tires which actually makes a difference. I am talking pounds per corner, not ounces.

I would get a set of the above and not think twice. I am running Michelin SS on my GT3 when weather's bad and sometimes in the dry when it's not convenient to switch wheels. Trust me, they are FINE

Cheers

Matt

Brian C in Az

Everything they said is spot on. You want to be faster? Use a street tire to learn. A more track oriented tire with more grip is less forgiving when overdriven. You need to learn to push the tires past their grip. If you aren't sliding, you aren't driving correctly. All fast drivers push the tires until they slide. (I'm not talking about formula drift type of sliding.) A less grippy street tire that slides will teach you more about car control and rotation than anyone or anything else. A less grippy tire lets you learn at a slower more controllable speed. The more grip a tire has, the more narrow the range of slip and the less room for error, the less forgiveness it has and it is much harder to recover when overdriven. A lower level street tire gives a lot more feedback (as Matt said, they sing to you) and is easier to recover. Are your tires singing to you EVERY turn? If not in EVERY turn then you aren't ready to progress. Save your pennies. Drive what you have until they are down to 4/32. Then buy the same tire. Changing tire type will require you to relearn your car. Too many changes too soon in your DE career will set you back. How will you know when you are truly ready to move up to a higher level tire? When you can tell that your tires have heat cycled out and your lap times increase as a result (usually with a lot of tread left too). You are at least one more set away from that level; probably two sets away.
The fact that your rear tires are wearing considerably faster than the fronts is another indicator that you aren't pushing the car. Many fast guys cord their fronts long before the rears are worn.

anthony42hat

Lots of good advice here, thanks to all who contributed...I appreciate it. I was fairly certain I wanted to stay on street tires and now I'm even more certain...my biggest question was whether to go to a different street tire like the RE-71r or Sport Cup 2's. I'm going to stick with the S04's, they have been good to me and wear very well. I'll pay closer attention as to whether the tires are singing in every corner. I hear them often but may not be pushing them as hard as I can in some corners. The comment about fewer variables is a good one, especially at this point in my driving. I want to continue to improve and get faster but in a progressive manner and without putting my car or anyone else's at risk. I'll be back at Summit Point in a couple of weeks!

docwyte

I'd definitely stick with a street tire and recommend going with one of the new auto-x "cheater" tires. They're just about as sticky as a NT01 but are much better to learn on and drive to and from the track on. If you end up having to drive home in the rain you'll be very happy that you're on street tires vs a NT01 type tire. So either RE71R or Rival S's or the like.

I'm running a set of Toyo R888's because they came with the car when I bought it and let me tell you, when they decide to let go, especially on cold pavement, they do it in a hurry! That's pretty typical of an R compound tire and the stickier they get, the worse they are in that regard. When I wear them out I'm most likely going to replace them with an auto-x type tire instead, as I do drive the car to/from the track.