Laguna Seca: low-grip surface?
#16
Three Wheelin'
Correct.
The OP’s incorrect assumption and Mark’s comments notwithstanding, in Ross’ and my experience, as well as most other top racing engineers, WRLS has lower relative grip (mu) than many other tracks in North America.
While sand and orher debris are no doubt more of a factor here than say, Mid-Ohio or COTA (other tracks that exhibit lower mu than many others), that has nothing to do with our calculations and resultant data and experience, relative to some other tracks in North America.
#17
Rennlist Member
I fully agree with this as well. Relatively speaking Laguna has less grip than most of the other big name tracks. Especially, in comparison to the tracks in the midwest and east coast. Not only is it apparent in the data, but also apparent with the setup changes that are required to make vehicles work at Laguna.
#18
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Why is Laguna Seca considered a low-grip surface? I was listened again to the super excellent "virtual track walk" done by Peter Kraus and Ross Bentley. They seemed to say that it had a low grip surface due to dust blowing on the track. When I've driven the track, I don't see any dust/dirt on the surface. Is there another explanation? Is it really a low-grip track? Is it just a matter of there being a lot of slow corners, and also how those corners are cambered?
Jeroen Bleekemolen says:
Facebook Post
For those that can't see the post: "P2 and P3 in practice today. Very low grip out there, luckily this is the same for all. Qualifying tomorrow at 12.45pm (21.45h CET) on IMSA.tv"
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#19
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Umm, yep.
Jeroen Bleekemolen says: https://www.facebook.com/bleekemolen...92465627500401
For those that can't see the post: "P2 and P3 in practice today. Very low grip out there, luckily this is the same for all. Qualifying tomorrow at 12.45pm (21.45h CET) on IMSA.tv"
Jeroen Bleekemolen says: https://www.facebook.com/bleekemolen...92465627500401
For those that can't see the post: "P2 and P3 in practice today. Very low grip out there, luckily this is the same for all. Qualifying tomorrow at 12.45pm (21.45h CET) on IMSA.tv"
Laguna is not low grip. it is a tough circuit that pushes the car harder than most tracks. look at the data to see if laguna is any lower grip than other tracks... i have .. it isnt.
#20
Burning Brakes
IMO, Laguna is always low grip. This weekend has been no different in my experience so far. I'm not sure what causes it but it seems like the dirt/dust being blown or brought onto the entire track all day.
-mike
-mike
#21
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#22
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Never driven Laguna Seca but all the announcers kept talking about during this past weekend's IMSA race was the low grip. With cars going off everywhere it sure looked true to me.
#23
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For me, Laguna project the illusion that's it grippy because it's so damn smooth. Compared to our So Cal tracks which are all fairly rough, Laguna's 10 yo surface is like glass so you expect it to have great grip. Aslo the dirt, sand, dust dies become a factor after a few sessions with cars going off and bringing that stuff back on track. Still, master T's 4,5,& 6 and you're on your way....
#24
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For me, Laguna project the illusion that's it grippy because it's so damn smooth. Compared to our So Cal tracks which are all fairly rough, Laguna's 10 yo surface is like glass so you expect it to have great grip. Aslo the dirt, sand, dust dies become a factor after a few sessions with cars going off and bringing that stuff back on track. Still, master T's 4,5,& 6 and you're on your way....
#25
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A skilled driver will always keep the car under him or within the reach of control. those that are not familiar, like at any track, and get too aggressive and push over the edge, can loose control.. its simple.
Again, its not that the track has low grip, it has high speed straights and low speed turns.. the main turns are all mostly 90 degree in angle, (some tight and some wide) and 4 have banking and 3 being flat amd one being a 190 degree. you overdrive it, and it seems like its the track being slippery, but its not.
yep, there is probably more grip on 5, 6 , 8, and 10 than any track in the country. i would be certain that cornering gs are higher here than most any other turns in racing...
Again, its not that the track has low grip, it has high speed straights and low speed turns.. the main turns are all mostly 90 degree in angle, (some tight and some wide) and 4 have banking and 3 being flat amd one being a 190 degree. you overdrive it, and it seems like its the track being slippery, but its not.
yep, there is probably more grip on 5, 6 , 8, and 10 than any track in the country. i would be certain that cornering gs are higher here than most any other turns in racing...
Most tracks have high speed straights and low speed turns. Laguna Seca is lower in top speed than almost all the big East Coast and Midwest tracks, it also has the slowest corner of any of the major tracks including Namerow at Mont Tremblant and Turn 7 at Sebring. It's not that quick a track, top or bottom. Turn 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 10 are NOT 90 degree turns. Turns 2, 5, 6, 8A, 9 and 10 are well cambered (banked).
Umm, no. While there is good grip, relative to the other turns, at Turns 5, 6 and 10, the cornering g's are NOT higher here than most ANY other turns in racing.
Mark, you need to get out more...
#26
Burning Brakes
#27
Instructor
It sounds like you have been taking this as a personal attack from the beginning of the thread. Your defense of Laguna's reputation goes against the opinion of every racer who has been to multiple tracks.
Low grip isn't a bad thing, it is just an observation and it is an equal handicap for all cars.
#28
Instructor
The hairpin at Chuckwalla definitely has more "grip" due to it's banking than those turns you listed. Personally, I don't think banked corners are a fair test of grip since there are other physics involved; nor are they as much fun in my opinion.
#29
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Mark I think you are a smart guy and add to the conversation. Others may disagree but I find you entertaining. But every once in a while, like this thread, I feel like you stake out a position that is so far out there that I wonder if you are trolling everyone and just giggling to yourself.
If you are sincere in your beliefs than I think you might have missed your calling as a permanently contrary teenager disagreeing with his parents.
If you are sincere in your beliefs than I think you might have missed your calling as a permanently contrary teenager disagreeing with his parents.