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I bought a 997 GT3RS, gave the full bolt in factory roll cage, 18"BBS wheels, full monoball suspension, LSD, euro bucket seats, Cup exhaust and quick release steering wheel.
I used it weekly at times, used it for tarmac ralling and PCA.
At one point I went with Cup doors, Cup wing and Cup seat.
It was livable. However, track wheel alignment killed tires on the street. (would wear inner barrells on rears fast!)
The race buckets are annoying for daily duty.
Not having a trailer with tools and tires is not the best way to run a race. Limited to DOT tires make it more a D.E car.
I began trailering it.
It was a great test of what one can do with a factory road car and how far you can take it. I enjoyed it.
I still have the car but to be honest it is going back to showroom stock to be user friendly.
I ended up buying a factory race car.
The beauty of using a RS and factory parts is that the car is still worth more then what i paid for it in 2009.
Well, I did it... took way longer than expected and went so far over budget that I’m probably going to sell it to recoup the money to be able to race spec Miata this season. I went into it with a no expenses spared mindset but due to delays and significant unplanned cost overruns ($40k over budget), it has cut into my racing budget too deeply.
On the bright side, it’s as fast if not slightly faster than a 991.1 gt3. Legal for the streets and legal for races (depending on area, series, etc).
That's a beautiful car, no doubt of that, but have you placed in the top three at a regional level with it yet? I don't mean to be a wet wick, but have you made it to the podium?
No doubt we can build cars that are legal on the track and street. I'll do it, I know others who have or will, but are you racing against peers?
Not to be a wet wick, but do you see anywhere in the OP that the steerable race car has to podium to be mentioned in this thread? Was that a requisite of the poll (that said car had to podium regardless of that particular owners driving ability)?
I just went back to the OP and there was zero mention of being front of the pack with hypothetical racecar. Did you just want to make sure the beautiful BMW wasn't seen in a better light than a Porsche cup car?
It's highly unlikely that there exists data that would prove the point that cages are less safe in street accidents because, generally speaking, people don't drive those cars on the street enough to create enough accidents where the data can be collected and analyzed. But I think we can safely assume that putting a metal bar near an unhelmeted head is worse than not having the bar there with all else being equal. And I think the crash test videos showing where the dummies flail about to in the cabin provide some good support for the notion as well.
Anecdotal data here but.... years ago, a woman in the Chicago Region PCA, who IIRC was a club racer (or at least a DE'er) had an older 911 fully caged, etc. She took the car out to bed the brakes in. Short trip around the block sort of thing. Along that short trip she lost control of the car and rolled it. Smacked her head on the bar, and now has permanent brain injuries.
That's enough for me. No full cages on a street car.
Then there's another friend (who is a member here but I won't call him out) who had a 996 GT3 set up for, I think, J class? It was set up well, and he was competitive in his class... but it was also a street car. Experienced driver cruising up a lakefront parkway in Chicago, going a little bit too fast, hit a pothole on a cold day which jerked the car around, he lost control... and rolled it. Car was on Motons, stiff springs (likely 1000# or something like that).
As others have said, when you try to do an "all in one" you wind up with a compromise. Rollbar for track safety is a street driven hazard. Super stiff springs for proper track handling also wind up being a hazard on the street. At a minimum every pothole has the potential to really disrupt the car... worse, you risk tearing the suspension out of the car... worse still... accidents.
I've currently got a Cayman that's a giant compromise. 600/700# springs, monoball everywhere, JRZ's. Race seats, harnesses, only a rollbar (not a full cage.) On Hoosiers it feels good on the track BUT I can tell it's a compromise. It's heavy (as I still have interior, A/C, windows, etc) and driving it back to back with a proper SPC, there is a noticeable difference in the nimbleness. At autocross it's almost too stiff unless the event is held at a place with perfect pavement. Otherwise I'm literally getting air in the bumpy sections as the car bounds and pounds over pavement transitions. And street use.... even after finally getting the car completed (an almost 3 year ordeal) I find myself opting NOT to drive it. Stiff, constantly paranoid about stuff in the road, it shreds rear tires (and that's even with a compromised alignment between tire wear and grip). It's just too much of a PITA to really enjoy. The only times I really drove it on the street last year were to Cars and Coffee events, because the kids seem to like seeing a "racecar." I took it down to Deals Gap this past fall but I put a stock Cayman seat in it first... no way I was gonna do it in a fixed-back bucket. And until I got out of the midwest... I was constantly dodging potholes and expansion strips.
Once you progress beyond the point, ability-wise, where you're running out of car when it's purely stock.... you're going to compromise. Better to have dedicated machines for the task.
Thank you for the compliments and comments. I agree that this car is a compromise, but mainly on the street. It definitely has a fair amount NVH to be a DD. I only kept items to would keep it street legal (I kept the A/C since I wasn't sure what the next owner would want) - equipment that keeps a car street legal is pretty negligible when it comes to weight: lights, wipers, horn, catalytic converters, etc. Most of the items required for street legality is already on a race car. The car is probably only a few hrs worth of work away from being 100% race car. As for hitting your head on the roll cage, aside from roll-overs, it's actually not bad since the cage was custom built and there seems to be plenty of head room. However, this is definitely not a car to drive every day. As it sits right now, it is completely street legal and complies with WRL rules and I think NASA. I do honestly think it can be competitive but I don't think it's a ringer for podium by any stretch of the imagination. Plus, the car is only part of the equation when it comes to getting onto the podium
I can't say I favor a roof rack, but I do favor the idea of requiring street tires in stock. I've tried to promote the idea of "yet another" class I've called "street" for this reason. As I understand, "stock" once meant racing a car that you might actually use on the street, while "prepared" was a stock car you'd done anything you could think of to make it go faster, like tearing out the stereo. .
But "stock" has moved on. Now it's sort of hard to race a street car and have any expectation of coming out better than the back of the pack, which is kind of hard for some folks and a few people think flies in the face of the intent behind what we call "club" racing.
I would be club racing right now if your thoughts came true. Something like the 'firehawk' you mention or just an actual stock/street class would be great.
Did you just want to make sure the beautiful BMW wasn't seen in a better light than a Porsche cup car?
Yep. That was it. Sole point of the question. I really hate BMWs worse than the dog's breakfast. Almost as much as Porsche Cup Cars.
The question was about weight Miss- just weight. Street cars tend to weigh more than track cars because they have things like two seats and A/C for example...
01-11-2019, 12:58 PM
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