the_vetman

You're good. They're triangulated roll bars - kind of like part of the chassis. You're likely safer than in a Cayman or 911 in a roll over. Note, however, that the A-pillar (windshield) does buckle.

Nonsequitur

What is the current update on this thread? The posted PCA Minimum Standards have not been changed as expected on 1/1/2019. Is the HNR requirement going to apply in PCA events this year? There was also chat on harness bars being outlawed.

fhp911

Driver8

Here is the wording from the DE Minimum Standards posted on pca.org,

"The participant should BE AWARE that the addition of such a seat and harness system results in the occupant being fastened upright in the vehicle. Therefore, in order to have a COMPLETE SYSTEM, a properly padded roll bar or roll cage is recommended, and an approved head and neck restraint device is required. A head and neck restraint device certified as meeting the standards of either SFI 38.1 or FIA 8858 or its successor is required."

911 Rod

Next we will have to determine what a "properly padded roll bar or roll cage" is.

Nonsequitur

Thank you! I should have double-checked yesterday.

Driver Education Minimum Standards
<https://www.pca.org/driver-education-minimum-standards>

How are drivers working with the implications of this wording? The equal restraints requirement means that both driver and passenger need harness, seat and HNR. Is the driver responsible for each of these decisions, especially the personal safety device (HNR) decision and properly fitting those components? Use of 3-point belts may be workable for the student/instructor and ride-along cases, but that needs functional airbags to be a complete system.

Driver8

Any portion of the assembly which may come in contact with the driver’s helmet must be covered with high density foam at least 3/4" thick. Foam must be equivalent to SFI 45.1 or FIA 8857 standards for hardness.

911 Rod

I was thinking more the bar itself.

Matt Romanowski

Maybe PCA's sponsorship from Simpson can help with a discount for participants? https://mailchi.mp/teamsimpson/simps...k?e=0dde884010

Aaron - any input?

911 Rod

I wonder what PCA gets out of sponsoring Simpson?

Matt Romanowski

Other way. SImpson is sponsoring (advertising) with PCA.

Dr.Bill

Here's what our DE chair included in his most recent e-mail:

Please note that if you have a multi-point harness system, you are ALSO required to utilize a head and neck restraint system (HANS device). Because the rule of equal restraint applies, there must also be both a harness system (and a HANS device) available and used by the passenger.

The way it's worded, it makes it sound like the car owner must have a second HANS 'available'. Of course, that doesn't mention the various different helmet posts required that a passenger isn't likely to have.

mglobe

docwyte

I'm the Tech Chair for the Rocky Mtn PCA Rgion and we're in the process of figuring out what to do here. It's pretty clear that if you're running a harness, you have to have a Head and Neck device. If you want to take a passenger, which in my region means you're an instructor, your passenger has to have a head and neck device as well, along with harnesses and a similar seat. That doesn't mean that the driver has to own a 2nd head and neck device. The passenger can have their own, borrow one, etc.

You also need to check the dates on the HANS, apparently they need to be inspected/re-certified every 5 years, that's another thing we're going to pass on...

ApexPerformance

We have offered special pricing to some PCA clubs to purchase loaner helmets and entry-level head & neck restraints for this purpose.

We are not allowed to openly discount named manufacturers, If any regions are interested, please contact Linda direct.

linda@apexperformance.net