mdrums

You obviously have no clue on how air bags work and are designed then. Yes windows will keep arms inside the car in a crash. Go out and punch your car window...try it you won't break it. Windows in modern cars are designed to contain and steering air bags into the proper position as well. Windows down at a DE should be a thing of the past especially with modern day cars with safety glass and multiple air bags.

AudiOn19s

Audi Club allowed windows up at Mid Ohio the last couple of years. I'll tell you this, there's a shocking amount of people that are reluctant to adapt to the windows up and turn signals for passing in the upper groups. They were mandating turn signals in the lower groups to condition those students. Their philosophy is they don't want students to remove their hands from the wheel for ANY reason, not even passing signals.

Helped me practice for my Ring trip.

I will note, it was a HOT day and I tried to run without the A/C after a rain storm and the whole car fogged up in 2 laps. Had to run the A/C to keep things inside the car happy with me huffing and puffing behind the wheel.

DTMiller

Is windows up mandatory with those groups, I ask while staring at the box with the AC components from my car in it. Also, if it was so hot I had to run AC my car would be even more not fast.

85Gold

TRAKCAR

I don't have a race car and I don't have side window nets, nor will I put arm restrains in my daily driver.
Not so paranoid about arms flailing being prevented by closed windows but it CAN help and its not absurt.
That's why they do crash tests with windows up:

TRAKCAR

Yet another safety benefit, thanks!

LuigiVampa

This window up or down rule is also a DE car versus race car issue.

My race car does not have airbags nor windows to roll up. I have a harness, halo seat, and window net. Raining or snowing (I have been on the track in the snow!) I am out there sans windows.

In my DE car I don;t have airbags but still have windows. I'll keep my passenger side window up in bad weather but in an accident I prefer all windows to be down so someone could get to me as quickly as possible.

Veloce Raptor

I have no opinion which way is safer, if in fact either is. But I do agree that the "this is the way we have always done it" mindset is rampant...witness some groups still require long sleeves in a DE...

HPDE Guru

Mike, have 100% clarity that it is a track policy, not a Chin policy. At Barber, the Porsche Sport School *does not use* corner workers/race control. As such, they have their own independent guidelines. All the large-scale tracks that have fully developed fire/rescue/safety teams require windows down. It's a fact. When it's raining and they give exceptions, they're just being nice. But, the policy doesn't change. My personal preference would be windows up. But, the track safety boss always has the final say. The windows open standard is always related to rescuing a disabled driver post-crash. Chin always adopts the track standard.

BillNye

Yea. Same statement can be made for convertible tops up vs down. It's inconsistent at best with each being justified by some armchair idea of what may or may not happen in a crash.

There are plenty of good reasons for windows up and down. Merely pointing out the ones that support your opinion isn't going to persuade somebody to risk their job/reputation/liability to make a change.

MaxLTV

Oh, so it's your fault we have this archaic and ridiculous rule.

#1 Windows are made easy to break. Seat belt or harness buckle is 100% effective to break a window from the inside, and on the outside you can use a special tool or fire extinguisher, flag shaft, etc. Even most car key will work. Windows also tend to shatter in any deformation of the roof anyway, so if the door does not open the window is most likely gone already. Outside of track, on public roads, where everything has been tested and quantified rather than based on superstitions, it's a determined fact that closed windows are safer. In fact, many new cars will close windows when a collision is about to happen.
#2 Only relevant in those extremely rare situations where the gar gets disabled next to a corner worker AND in such a way that window lowering mechanism would break as well AND there would be no other noise around (racetracks are known for peace and quiet)
#3 How is someone's hand more visible than a blinker? Unlike a blinker, a hand often obscured by the car and it does not light up.
#4 Side windows are made to shatter into pieces that are almost indistinguishable from gravel in a gravel trap. Few more pebbles would not make much difference. Also, upper windows are up and would almost definitely shutter in a crash with enough deformation to make doors unopenable.

Everywhere else in the world, and even in the USA outside of the track driving, it's determined that windows up is the safer way in a street-legal car - no debris plying in, no limbs flailing out, airbags work better etc. But of course, a bunch of seasoned farts writing track rules in the US is the only group in the universe that has any clue.

mglobe

I have SEEN two street cars catch on fire at a DE. Both were late model GM products (Corvette & Camero), which have electric door releases. In both cases the electrical systems were fried by the fire. Both cars had an emergency door release, but in both cases the drivers (and one instructor) chose to bail out the window as that was the fastest way out. I'd hate to be looking for a tool to break a window, or trying to hit the window with a seat belt buckle.

As Peter stated, in a rollover that is violent enough to cause your arms to come out of the window, the window would most likely shatter. I've looked for information on the efficacy of side air bags with windows open vs closed and have not found any info so far.

NaroEscape

dr john

Audi Club North America allows windows up and turn signals as part of our National Guidelines. We do it for safety and ease of giving passes. We basically use european DE rules. Our national website has the DE Guidelines available for review. https://audiclubna.org/ Sorry but only ACNA Members can access the site.

LuigiVampa

Unless its fire retardant long sleeves are just more stuff they have to scrape off your skin God forbid you are in a fire.