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Good line, except turn 9. No need to go so far out to the right to setup for it (especially without downforce), you're just wasting time. Here's where I'd want to be (this is me in a 991.1 Cup. very different than your car obviously, but the line is the same):
Overall, lots of time to be had on the brakes and shortening up the time between initial brake application and when you go back to power (you're making your braking zones way too long and coasting to much in the middle), but that'll come with more seat time and coaching, so don't stress about it, just keep it in mind when you're at the track.
Have fun and keep working at it!
-mike
GREAT advice, but my experience is different than Mike's regarding Turn 9, one of the most difficult and variably executed corners on the West Coast.
I do think more time is dropped at T8A-T9 than most other areas on the course, but decades of SBRS and other accumulated data reinforces the idea that you don't want to "pinch" the entry of T9.
I'm asking people to bisect the width of the road with their left side tires, and turn-in generally deeper than most people go.
Since there is SOME speed moderation required to GET the nose down to the inside, be efficient about that when you do that and do it deep enough to get the car to turn more quickly and surely towards the inside curbing, when you DO do that.
Also, Grant Ryley wrote a GREAT explanation from the collective experience of many SBRS instructors on JUST Turn 9. See attached.
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Good line, except turn 9. No need to go so far out to the right to setup for it (especially without downforce), you're just wasting time. Here's where I'd want to be (this is me in a 991.1 Cup. very different than your car obviously, but the line is the same):
Overall, lots of time to be had on the brakes and shortening up the time between initial brake application and when you go back to power (you're making your braking zones way too long and coasting to much in the middle), but that'll come with more seat time and coaching, so don't stress about it, just keep it in mind when you're at the track.
Have fun and keep working at it!
-mike
That's way too narrow at the entrance of 9, for any car that doesnt have slicks in my opinion. that's a line reserved for car with more grip than they know what to do with in the DOT racing world, if i ever see someone run that line, i immediately run up on them. ProCoach has a video that has a nicer line for most cars . notice how his car in the video goes up to the right, very close to the right birm and then immediately starts a turn in.
However, aside from the turn 9, that was a near perfect lap! (from what i can see and hear). NICE!
Originally Posted by ProCoach
GREAT advice, but my experience is different than Mike's regarding Turn 9, one of the most difficult and variably executed corners on the West Coast.
I do think more time is dropped at T8A-T9 than most other areas on the course, but decades of SBRS and other accumulated data reinforces the idea that you don't want to "pinch" the entry of T9.
I'm asking people to bisect the width of the road with their left side tires, and turn-in generally deeper than most people go.
Since there is SOME speed moderation required to GET the nose down to the inside, be efficient about that when you do that and do it deep enough to get the car to turn more quickly and surely towards the inside curbing, when you DO do that.
Apologies if this has been asked before, but what are "good" times on Laguna Seca? I have a 2012 991 S, and my best (this past weekend) was 1:48.305. Previously I couldn't break under 1:54 so pretty pleased with the improvement, but have no idea if it's competitive with other folks or not. I have a friend with a 2014 991 base, and his best was 1:51. How about you guys with Caymans, what are the average #s on this course?
Cool! What group did you go with? I go with a group, SpeedSF Track Events, to Laguna about once a month and greatly enjoy it. They also have coaches for basic of advanced coaching.
I was there last month and co-drove a friend's stock CaymanR. Lap times were 1:43s and 1:44s, but the rear tires were very worn so the car did not inspire confidence as it wanted to rotate easily. I suspect fresh tires would put that car 1:41ish. There were various versions of 911s passing me, running 1:35-1:39s!
I ran there on Sunday and the Precision Track App called my best time 1:41:80 but quite honestly I am a little suspect of that time because my best time prior to that lap was 1:43 and the conditions on Sunday were not great. I’m in a 991.2 GTS with stock alignment and P Zeros and it was cold on Sunday but that 1:41 time was on my last session and the tires did look like they should when I came into the garage. Maybe it is a real time but I suspect I’m turning 1:43 consistently.
Mark offers some good advice and it mirrors what my coach offered when I drove that track the first time. As has been said, this track seems to favor hard on the accelerator or hard on the brakes. It’s a really different experience than, say, Thunderhill.
For me the most unsettling parts of the track is the crest coming in to turn 1 and it took me a while to over-ride my habit of lifting off the accelerator. I ran this section well on Sunday. The double apex turn 1-2 is tricky and I still don’t have this figured out, I fear. I am hard on the brakes come down the hill, track right and then cut turn 1 tight, track out half the width of the track only to come in again for two. At least that is what I am trying to do but I know I’m coming in too shallow on the entry to 2 and that pushes me out where I’m fighting the curb. I need to work on this.
#3 is funky and the off camber can get me into trouble but I’m pretty fast on this and it sets me up well for 4, and as Mark said, on the gas early because there is a lot of track to work with coming out of 4. If I can get to 120mph between 4 and 5 I feel like I did that section well.
5 to 6 features the sound station but if I come in tight on 5 and track out but then come left up the hill I do not have a problem with sound and can stay on the gas. I love turn 6, it is my favorite section of this track. On the gas early, hit the curb, track right up and over the hill.
The Corkscrew... I always feel like I am braking too early at the top because, honestly, the lift at the top of the turn scares me. Having said that, I’m pretty comfortable in the drop and if I hit the left and right curbs I can get through here pretty smoothly. In my other car I can do my best Zanardi impression and come across the curb completely!
9 and 10 weirded me out last year when the heavy rains washed out large sections off the right side of the track. I still have dreams about driving into those ditches. My track buddy calls this section his favorite and after following him through there enough times I have come to appreciate his approach. You can carry a lot of speed in this section without getting into trouble, and I now really like how turn 10 gives you so much track to work with.
11 is my nemesis. I worked hard on this section on Sunday and got faster through here but I still don’t feel like I am carrying enough energy out of the turn. I’m braking hard, have a good line but there is a formula for coming out of that turn and getting on the accelerator without coming loose that is escaping me. Maybe I’m going too late on the apex?
Originally Posted by mark kibort
nice smooth lap. very clean and conservative.
1 . dont coast to turn 1. fulll throttle using that line and wait until you feel compelled to brake into turn 2. many ways to attack turn 2. yours was an early apex which is fine, it creates a double apex. no problem
2. faster to turn 3
3, faster to t turn 4 (on the gas sooner
4. brake later to turn 5
5. brake later and not as much for turn 6. no need to downshift
6. corkscrew entry good, but dont upshift out of it. depnding on grip increase throttle to full until you go high on the right and start turn in. usualy a lift is all you need for 9
7. make the exit of 9 and the entrance of 10 a big S turn. , so the entrance to 10 is a trail brake
8. later brake and later apex for 11, but not bad.... rinse repeat for a few years!
Thanks for all the feedback! I was taking 9 narrower on Saturday, but then I asked a coach to ride with me and give me pointers. He suggested the wider line I took here, so I was practicing that. Honestly, I can't say if either was faster, I seem to reach T10 at about the same time/speed. I will admit that taking it narrower unsettled the car a bit more, even with SC2s on it, so I felt the wider approach felt more "stable", but not any faster. I'll try both more next time and see if I can shave a bit with one approach over the other.
The coasting is definitely an issue. I see it in all of my videos, and it's something I need to work on. I don't feel like I'm coasting when driving, but the video makes it obvious
...what are "good" times on Laguna Seca? I have a 2012 991 S...
Randy Pobst lapped Laguna Seca in a 2012 991.1 Carrera S in 1:39.3 on Pirelli P-Zeros during Motor Trends 2012 Best Driver's Car competition. Here's a video of his hot lap:
Randy Pobst lapped Laguna Seca in a 2012 991.1 Carrera S in 1:39.3 on Pirelli P-Zeros during Motor Trends 2012 Best Driver's Car competition. Here's a video of his hot lap:
Was back at WRLS this past weekend (Memorial Day weekend), and shaved another 2s off for a 1:46.1. Tried to incorporate most of the tips on here I feel like my line is better, just need to carry a bit more speed in some of the turns and maybe brake a bit less/later. Also, I given it was wet earlier in the day, I just didn't have the courage to stay flat out on the throttle through turn 1 on these laps.
Was back at WRLS this past weekend (Memorial Day weekend), and shaved another 2s off for a 1:46.1. Tried to incorporate most of the tips on here I feel like my line is better, just need to carry a bit more speed in some of the turns and maybe brake a bit less/later. Also, I given it was wet earlier in the day, I just didn't have the courage to stay flat out on the throttle through turn 1 on these laps.
Some day I'll do LS on an unlimited sound day so I won't have to run restrictive supertrapps on my exhaust and lift going out of T5. At that point I'll be able to see what my Boxster can really do. Best lap with those limitations is a 1:43.
Very interesting thread.
Im from Europe, but being often in the SF bay area, i fall in love with Laguna Seca.
In the above, my only comment is that in turn 9, i tend to enter about mid track, or even a little bit "more" than that, and when approaching the apex, ..i do floot it.
if I enter (9) more in the left, (ok, a shorter path..), I get the feeling that i have to wait a bit longer to floor it, ..to exit wide right in the best possible acceleration in the way to t10.
But, with all the above comments, sure that the line do depend from the car you have.
(mine is an old (2001) Boxster S, that have a stock engine, ..or somehow low power, ..but I have good brakes (6p caliper on big floating rotors), this with Ok tires (nt01) with good negatve camber). So my territory is entering curves and curves, ..as on the exit, my engine can only gives what he has !
Currently, I have more than 1300 miles driven on this track, and feel ..that i still have a lot to optimize there !
This is a low speed, ..but a very technical line track, just love it big time.
about turn 2, imo another very technical curve, once, a local guy told me : .."you have to see it as a V curve, where the apex is somehow between the first an the second one, and more into the track". ( track is very wide at this area)
I still use this vision, entering with brake on at the first apex, still braking at the apex level (..very very strange, right ?) and then attack curve, to pass second apex to in acceleration.
..but to be honnest, Im still asking myself questions as being right (or not !!) executing t2 this way.
02-21-2018, 05:20 PM
in the DOT racing world, if i ever see someone run that line, i immediately run up on them. ProCoach has a video that has a nicer line for most cars . notice how his car in the video goes up to the right, very close to the right birm and then immediately starts a turn in.
