Vipertag313

I would have to include any SOLO group should mandate necessary safety equipment. I was there at the event participating in White Solo with my 996. It is relatively stock with a stiffer suspension spring, r888 tire, and brake modifications for the track - no safety equipment other than my helmet and 3point belt. It's incredibly capable on track and saw 138mph going into the Turn 1 brake zone at Roebling that day. With those speeds I had two instructors ride with me throughout the day and had a great time.

I have to say this event was the largest safety wake up call for me and those like me who are beginning to transition from DE Events as a fun thing to do once/twice a year into a serious hobby.

We had walked over to fence line that looks down towards Turn 1 and 2. We watched the helicopter land and could not make much of the scene as the emergency vehicles were in front of everything. I will never forget that moment after.. standing right next to me was Mr. Wilson's wife. She learned when we did who was involved in the crashed and I will never forget that moment when she learned her loved one had been involved in an accident on track. I pray for the families of both Mr. Wilson and the instructor. For a speedy recovery for the instructor, and especially for Ms. Wilson. I can only imagine how hard it has to be to experience something like that. Seeing that was my wake up call to understand how much those close to me worry about my safety and what is necessary going forward for DE safety.

I've been told before that I drive too fast for the safety features of my car. In hindsight, going Solo with no added safety equipment was a massive risk. To see first hand the injuries that come from a 996 with no safety equipment going off at turn 1 really scared me. It drives the point home about the necessity of safety equipment on track. I will not be tracking my car again unless I install a full rear cage, harness, HANS compliant seat and hans device - or look to making the commitment for a dedicated track vehicle... Those items do not guarantee my safety, but it brings my car closer to the safety levels needed for the speeds generated when you are past the introductory stages of DE. I would not protest if DE Events began to mandate those safety items for all Solo classes. Many cars participating in them already have them, and I do not believe it would negatively impact the volume of people participating.

apex32

It's hard to come to these realizations when you are just getting into DE and become more serious. For most, these cars are their weekend grocery getters or even daily drivers. I did the same thing, and went to solo groups with a very fast car and not until I became more active in the clubs and listened to the preaching of those more wise did I start to focus on major safety upgrades. It's a hard thing to really grasp, and hopefully it doesn't take an incident like this for more people to invest in safety. Now as an instructor, I push safety upgrades onto students relentlessly. Most of them are pretty receptive to it when you discuss it over and over with them. I think we can all do a better job to educate new drivers on safety and the increased risks to be out there without any safety upgrades and push these fast new cars hard on the track. Looking back, I feel like an idiot to wait as long as I did, but I just did not know any better and the car was a daily driver at the time.

Vipertag313

That's how I feel now.. at the moment my 996 is also my only vehicle and daily driver. Within the year I'd like to pick up a tow vehicle so I can keep it as the weekend toy instead. I don't at all resent making the necessary changes to the car, just need to come to grips with the tradeoff of loosing some practicality in the process.

Dr911

So the safety variables we have discussed so far:

1. Track design, barriers, berms, tires.
2. Instruction methods: in car vs alternatives
3. Safety equipment in the car for both instructor and driver
4. Medical check ups for fitness.
5. Instructor intervention in emergency situations.

Of course they all play a role.

But I'm curious as to which SINGLE variable could carry most weight in being able to actually prevent this particular tragic outcome?

apex32

I think full/proper safety equipment if you single it down to one. To me the rest are just more variables, and lots of [other] things can happen. A mechanical failure could be pretty catastrophic and no medical check, instructor, etc can fix that. You need safety equipment to bridge the gap of unknowns and the unexpected. You could get punted off track by another car with a failure of some sort as well.

Tracks should be up to date and safe for sure. In terms of what you personally can control, safety mods need to be on the forefront of every track enthusiasts mind, IMO.

Manifold

Can't say until the details of the incident are known.

To your list, you should also add prep and tech of the car, and broader factors such as the event organizer and how the event is structured, since those broader factors influence driver decisions and interactions.

The most common reason for crashes is driver decisions which don't work out well. We need to influence those decisions in ways which reduce both the chance of crashes and their consequences, while also addressing all of the other factors on the list. A 'systems approach' is needed, because there are so many factors and interactions which influence outcomes.

docwyte

Well, which part? Having the instructor getting injured or exposing instructors to injury/death is easily solved by no longer having us in the cars. Just do remote coaching.
The tragedy in general would be helped by a better run off/barrier in that turn at the track and the car having more than just factory safety equipment in it. Hard to say what sort of injuries the passengers would've sustained but figure they would've been much better off with a proper rollbar, fixed back seats, 6 point harnesses and HANS...

I literally sold my DD supercharged E46 M3 because of the speeds I was seeing at the track, with basically just OEM safety equipment. Used the money to buy two cars, a DD and a dedicated track car that I put all the safety equipment in.

mose121

Was the instructor related to the driver? I noticed both have the same last name, albeit a common one. Someone had eluded that they were possibly father and son? Can't imagine what his wife is dealing with, let alone if her son was also in the car as the instructor. My heart goes out to all.

I think the lawyers are going to have a field day with this one. So many red flags here that I doubt any waiver/disclaimer no matter how strongly worded will hold up to negligence accusations. The possibility of a health event being the cause in this instance simply does not justify: A) a track operating with an archaic earth berm launch pad as a safety barrier that's been a danger to drivers for decades, B) the state allowing a track with 1960's era safety standards to be operated, and C) the club holding an event at a track with known safety concerns. There's more than enough negligence and liability to spread around for any competent lawyer to present a very legitimate case in all three scenarios. As someone with over 15 years of track experience at many different tracks of varying caliber, there's simply no excuse to operate an unsafe race track in this day and age. You need to limit your liability no matter what the cost, and clearly RRR has still not addressed an issue that's been there for decades. If you can't afford to operate it safely, then you have no business operating it in the first place.

ProCoach

Manifold

SCCA track certification isn't all it's cracked up to be, and insurance companies are fairly clueless when it comes to evaluating tracks. Let's not be too quick to let the track off the hook ...

Mark Dreyer

Veloce Raptor

Geez. No joke

jdistefa

Uh.... wrong.

There's a reason that medical testing is age-stratified for safety critical professions like long-haul truck drivers and commercial pilots.

Jim Fixx, although anecdotal, is actually a great example of why age related risk is an important consideration independent of 'fitness'. You are unlikely to have a heart attack, stroke, or arrhythmia at age 25, but once your plumbing and wiring crests the half century mark, well, sh*t happens.

And per some other posts, that's not ageism, it's just reality.

As Daniel Moynihan said, one is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.

mose121

Waivers mean absolutely nothing if there's even a shred of doubt that negligence may have played a role, which isn't difficult at all to show in these cases. When someone dies or gets hurts, Judges and Juries will always be sympathetic and someone is usually going to be held liable.

How the event was run and a good safety history means nothing right now. It only takes one instance to prove that, and here we are. The law doesn't care if you've held hundreds of events without an issue before an incident like this occurs. That berm is unsafe, that's what matters to the law, and no one can argue to the contrary. Ask yourself, does that berm meet your safety standards? No sane driver would answer yes to that question.

Improvements over time mean nothing if a safety risk like this is still present. At the very least an impact absorbent crash wall should have been installed. If the track owners/operators feel like it's unsafe and needs further modifications in order to be safe, which apparently they've stated prior to this incident, then they should have addressed it immediately. Using the excuse that the public road is too close to the edge of the track is total bull. Why didn't they install a proper barrier then? Or why didn't they reconfigure the track as so many others have been forced to do to eliminate known safety risks? From the looks of things they could easily just wall off the straight after the chicane, continue from the chicane and run down into a tighter turn, allowing adequate space for proper runoff and reducing the speeds in that area of the track. Looks like all they need to do is lay about 50-60 yards of pavement and that's it. It's not cheap, but if you can't afford to make your track safe then you can't afford to operate your track. Having a 60's era earth berm as a safety wall isn't going to convince anyone that the track was safe. Any decent lawyer can easily make that stick in court.

It's a good thing they have insurance, because they're probably going to need it. A risk assessment performed by an insurance company isn't necessarily doing so based solely on track safety guidelines. And who's guidelines would they use anyways? If they did assessments solely based on track regulations, half the tracks in the country probably wouldn't be able to get insurance. That is not the purpose of an insurance assessment. They are simply assessing the risks/rewards to cover their own ***, not the race track. They will likely take into account a good history of running safe events and the odds of an event like this occurring based on that data. However, as I mentioned before, one instance is all it takes and an insurance assessment in no way relieves the track of their responsibility to provide a safe environment.

SCCA certified? You mean the same organization that lets totally inexperienced drivers, in barely "self inspected" POS cars, who always overestimate their ability and sign up in the wrong run group, run around an overcrowded race track for $125-150 at their Track Night in America events? Clearly they put driver safety above profits. *rolleyes* I can't tell you how many times some idiot that has no clue about track safety and clearly has very little experience has almost taken me out in TNiA advanced run groups. These idiots don't even know how to exit pit lane safely let alone be safe on the track.

We'll have to let it play out, but I'm pretty confident I know where this is going.

How any responsible sanctioning body/organization could sign off on that berm only raises more questions.

HelpMeHelpU

Part of the reason, for better or worse, is that there's no administrative body overseeing DE events, like the FAA (or whatever) that requires private pilots to have regular, period physical exams that they must pass or not fly (legally). I am a big fan of living; not so much big fan of big brother and big government.

Very sad for all involved...and to some degree, all of us, as it reminds us in a very stark way of the potential consequences. Drive safely...and get a regular physical exam.