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How do regular people use NASCAR stock cars ?

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Old 01-05-2018, 04:58 PM
  #16  
gbuff
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Been running with these for years at WGI and Mosport with various groups--lots of trucks too. They're even lighter and will do sub-2s at the Glen if running (and driven) well. Lotsa speed for not lotsa $$$ (i.e. NAPA brake rotors, used slicks, etc)

Gary
Old 01-05-2018, 06:57 PM
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d15b7
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and safe! if I had to pick a car to be involved in a multicar crash in, a stock car would be at the top of my list. I remember reading a Car and Driver (or Road and Track) back in 1987ish where they compared a mid 1980s Chevy Monte Carlo stock car, and a Porsche 962, at a monster test track where they ran them up to top speed. guess which car won? If memory serves, it was the Monte Carlo (this back when the stock cars ran stock bodies like their production counterparts, so this was one of those squared off bodies) at a crazy speed of 240+ mph. (I'm hazy on the details going back so many years, but I think they turned the boost to the moon on the 962 and it went high 22x mph and melted down the motor; the stock car they taped up all the intakes and cracks with speed tape and ran (in those days) the unrestricted legit qualifying motor. so, a stock car can definitely go fast, and it's aero isn't a huge impediment!!
Old 01-05-2018, 11:16 PM
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Brian 162
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Originally Posted by d15b7
and safe! if I had to pick a car to be involved in a multicar crash in, a stock car would be at the top of my list. I remember reading a Car and Driver (or Road and Track) back in 1987ish where they compared a mid 1980s Chevy Monte Carlo stock car, and a Porsche 962, at a monster test track where they ran them up to top speed. guess which car won? If memory serves, it was the Monte Carlo (this back when the stock cars ran stock bodies like their production counterparts, so this was one of those squared off bodies) at a crazy speed of 240+ mph. (I'm hazy on the details going back so many years, but I think they turned the boost to the moon on the 962 and it went high 22x mph and melted down the motor; the stock car they taped up all the intakes and cracks with speed tape and ran (in those days) the unrestricted legit qualifying motor. so, a stock car can definitely go fast, and it's aero isn't a huge impediment!!
It was Road&Track. I still have a copy of that magazine. It was Al Holbert's 962 and Tim Richmond's 87 Monte Carlo SS.
Old 01-06-2018, 11:09 AM
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I know a guy who runs one. Biffed it into the wall at WGI last year and messed up the car. Had a pleasant dinner with him that night at the Seneca Lodge. Definitely the car you want to be in if you have to hit something hard. He says the operating costs are pretty low; lots of lightly used stuff discarded by teams for low low dollars that are fine for a DE day or three.
Old 01-06-2018, 11:25 AM
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sugarwood
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Originally Posted by TXE36
It turns out I believe I have video of that kid. It was the weekend I hired VR for some coaching. His reaction is priceless when the stock car went by me at about 110 MPH like I was parked:
-Mike
How fast were you going on that straight ?
Old 01-06-2018, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Veloce Raptor
Nate Stacy
https://www.motorsport.com/pwc/news/...ar-837710/amp/

Great kid.
Old 01-06-2018, 11:53 AM
  #22  
Formulabob
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Default NASCAR Cars and Trucks

Retired NASCAR driver Mike Skinner frequently is at CHIN track days at Sebring with his Goodwood FOS trucks (search UTube). Roughly 1000hp and 2500+ lbs for the prime truck. No wing, but a big diffuser and other aero tweaks. Mike is a great guy and still can really wheel those things. Last month, we only partially in jest asked for a “Skinner Flag” (blue with big yellow S) because, at 190+mph on the straight, he comes up on you FAST. The trucks corner quite well at some really interesting angles to the intended line, not to mention on three wheels like U2 TransAm cars of the late 60s/early 70s. Nothing cheap about Mike and his partners Equipe though (gorgeous transporter). Not sure about his lap times but would guess he is close to GTLM times.

Bob L
Old 01-06-2018, 12:22 PM
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TXE36
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Originally Posted by sugarwood
How fast were you going on that straight ?
Perhaps I could have worded that better. If you look I shift from 4th to 5th just before he goes by - in that car I'm shifting at 110 MPH. I was going at least 110, maybe 115 when he went by - he was going much faster than that and also nailed T1 like a boss.


-Mike
Old 01-06-2018, 01:04 PM
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FOS373
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Goto about 31:00 and you'll hear Lewis describe his experience.


i think it would be a fun and reasonably priced track car
Old 01-06-2018, 01:21 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by fosbibr
Goto about 31:00 and you'll hear Lewis describe his experience.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=86lQaRq5N4U

i think it would be a fun and reasonably priced track car
Awesome! “You can make a lot of smoke with this baby. That’s why it has “Smoke” on the side...”
Old 01-06-2018, 01:29 PM
  #26  
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I remember the first year I saw a row of these lined up at a vintage race at Road America. Talking to the lead mechanic for the "team" he said all the owners have various other vintage race cars (Group 6 and Can-Am) they've been campaigning for man years. The cost of maintaining those cars was very high (by comparison) and the values going through the roof, they found a much cheaper way to go racing.

Colin Comer of Comer's Classics in Wisconsin, has brought many special vehicles to various events in Elkart Lake over the years.
A while ago he started racing a retired Trans-Am car and wrote about the difference between racing a priceless vintage car and something like a 1995 SCCA Mustang: Same concept as using something from NASCAR and more and more of these are popping up at every vintage race.

Not to shabby lapping Road America in the 2:10 range in a vintage event.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...s-am-race-car/


It's Better to Have a Vintage Race Car You Don't Need to Worry About
Putting the racing before vintage.

BY COLIN COMER
APR 15, 2016

As much as vintage racers hate to admit it, we aren't creating history when we compete; we are merely celebrating it. So if you're going vintage racing, is it smarter to drive something faster and more durable? In other words, something less vintage?

I've argued both sides of this. For years, I drove a 1966 Ford Mustang GT350 B-Production car in the highly competitive Group 6 class. Never mind that my little Shelby was the proverbial knife in a gunfight, up against later cars with big-blocks and four-wheel disc brakes. I contended that drum brakes, a 289-cubic-inch engine, skinny tires, and midpack battles constituted real historic racing.

Then I bought my first modern-era (1997), tube-frame Trans-Am Mustang. Wow. Screw those old production-based race cars! It was a revelation. It was a purpose-built race car with more than 600 hp, 14-inch-wide slicks all around, and lots of downforce. Also, brakes that worked and a stout roll cage. Capable of top speeds just shy of 200 mph, it had the performance of today's quickest supercars but was faster around the track. Trans-Am cars of this era are also extremely robust, having been built for endurance racing.

On top of all that, if I'd crashed it, I wouldn't have destroyed something as important as a GT350. I suddenly felt bad for the years I spent sneering at guys driving post-historic-era cars in vintage racing. I was now one of them.

After much success in the '97 over a few seasons, I jumped at the opportunity to buy the car pictured here: Jon Gooding's 1995 Mountain Dew Roush Mustang Trans-Am car. Roush TA cars are the gold standard in this realm, and this one was well-sorted. It had the good stuff—a current GT1/TA-spec, 358-cubic-inch, 750-hp Ford V8 and a wide-gear Hewland five-speed transmission. As someone who witnessed firsthand the Trans-Am wars in the mid-Nineties, I feel pretty special when I strap into a car I used to watch from the fence.

As advertised, the Roush needed little work to get on track. In the years since, it has required only careful maintenance and preparation. It's also put me on the top step of more podiums than I likely deserve.

The best part is that I can drive this car at ten-tenths without guilt. We all want to live out the Walter Mitty fantasy, but in an irreplaceable historic car, it's sometimes not worth the risk.

SQUARE IT UP: Buying and caring for a vintage race car is similar to buying any old car, only the stakes are higher. You don't want to uncover a problem at 150 mph. Also, racing a car brings all sorts of extra expenses. Ex-Trans-Am cars can be had from $75,000, depending on provenance and condition, but costs for parts and prep make a crack cocaine addiction seem economical.

THE BASICS: Make sure you aren't buying a twisted or poorly repaired chassis. Verify the car's past—big premiums are placed on history and cars from certain manufacturers.

ENGINE: TA cars like mine raced in period with 310-cubic-inch Ford engines that made about 600 hp. Today, you'll want a 358-cubic-inch, 750-hp Windsor engine, which can cost up to $60,000 if built from scratch. Or, for about $15,000, Roush Yates sells "take-out" 358-cubic-inch NASCAR engines that can be adapted to a TA car. No matter your choice, none of these last forever. Figure $10,000 every two seasons for a rebuild (unless it blows up sooner).

TRANSMISSION: Even wide-gear Hewland gearboxes break. A new one costs $15,000; a rebuild is about $5000. Jerico transmissions are cheaper and easier to use.

BRAKES: Be prepared to spend on brake rotors and hats, as you'll burn them up. Pads, however, are surprisingly long-lived.

TIRES: You don't want to run a Trans-Am car fast on tires past roughly six heat cycles. Hoosier has a current TA tire package that runs about $2000. You'll use two sets a weekend if you want to fight for the front of the grid.

SPARES: The more of everything, the better. You're going to break stuff. If a spares package isn't included with the car, budget for one. There is no shortage of mechanical parts available for these cars, but some components unique to individual chassis may have to be fabricated.

SAFETY GEAR: Don't skimp here. Get fresh belts, window nets, and a good containment seat. Service the fuel and fire systems.

USE YOUR HEAD: A full-fledged TA car shouldn't be the first thing you take to a track. They're fantastic to drive but also challenging. Things happen really fast, requiring an acute awareness of what you and the car are doing at all times. Nobody remembers a vintage-race result, but they always remember the guy who wrecked doing something stupid.
Old 01-06-2018, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr
I remember the first year I saw a row of these lined up at a vintage race at Road America. Talking to the lead mechanic for the "team" he said all the owners have various other vintage race cars (Group 6 and Can-Am) they've been campaigning for man years. The cost of maintaining those cars was very high (by comparison) and the values going through the roof, they found a much cheaper way to go racing.

Colin Comer of Comer's Classics in Wisconsin, has brought many special vehicles to various events in Elkart Lake over the years.
A while ago he started racing a retired Trans-Am car and wrote about the difference between racing a priceless vintage car and something like a 1995 SCCA Mustang: Same concept as using something from NASCAR and more and more of these are popping up at every vintage race.

Not to shabby lapping Road America in the 2:10 range in a vintage event.
Actually, Colin has done a 2:06, IIRC. A client I was coaching in a similar, Roush-built (and crewed) car outqualified him by a touch, then Colin went on to win, but these are even more awesome cars than Cup (Sprint Cup) cars...
Old 01-06-2018, 02:30 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by ProCoach
Actually, Colin has done a 2:06, IIRC. A client I was coaching in a similar, Roush-built (and crewed) car outqualified him by a touch, then Colin went on to win, but these are even more awesome cars than Cup (Sprint Cup) cars...
Wow, that's awesome. I didn't realize he's gotten that much faster, but it doesn't surprise me. Great driver (from my perspective) and a well setup car.
Old 01-06-2018, 03:40 PM
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I run with some of these NASCAR sedans and trucks mainly at WGI. They are fast when running OK. I think they are tremendous bang for the buck. The sound is awesome too. It's not my kind of ride but they are probably a blast to bomb around in.
Old 01-06-2018, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TXE36
Perhaps I could have worded that better. If you look I shift from 4th to 5th just before he goes by - in that car I'm shifting at 110 MPH. I was going at least 110, maybe 115 when he went by - he was going much faster than that and also nailed T1 like a boss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwfY0ZNf4q0

-Mike
That was a legitimate high speed corner, The best I have done through there is 130 entrance slowing to 95 for T2, and I have been passed by the orange GT3 (can't remember the guys name) in T1.


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