How to deal with new NASA TT and ST AVG HP rules
12-15-2017, 04:48 AM
#46
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I spent years trying to get down to the 5.5:1 ratio max for tt1/st1 unsuccessfuly. Got close and then they change the ratio to 6:1 so had to add weight back. And they keep making it worse with these rule changes. Now I have to add more weight with the latest change.
Last edited by wanna911; 12-15-2017 at 07:26 AM.
12-15-2017, 04:10 PM
#47
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And keep the gears in and move the engine fwd of the rear axle.
12-15-2017, 04:51 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
yes, we are talking of upshifts to see what the spread is over the HP curve for effective utilization
The % of the Redline RPM after an upshift. ,
so, those are decently close ration gears. so, you take your HP curve and plot 74%, and 77% for the 3 gears you would spend time in, to get a picture of your average HP. (3 points in each gear RPM range, is generally enough).
Then, to get even more accurate about it, review from your data how long you spend in each RPM range .
example: with your HP curve (which is very flat by the way, ) you have a shift range of 5000 to 5100rpm where you have 450hp, and then at 5500rpm you are at 500hp and at near redline you are at 500hp. so , your average HP is in the 480hp range. (if you use that graph that Z06xxxx posted)
The % of the Redline RPM after an upshift. ,
so, those are decently close ration gears. so, you take your HP curve and plot 74%, and 77% for the 3 gears you would spend time in, to get a picture of your average HP. (3 points in each gear RPM range, is generally enough).
Then, to get even more accurate about it, review from your data how long you spend in each RPM range .
example: with your HP curve (which is very flat by the way, ) you have a shift range of 5000 to 5100rpm where you have 450hp, and then at 5500rpm you are at 500hp and at near redline you are at 500hp. so , your average HP is in the 480hp range. (if you use that graph that Z06xxxx posted)
12-15-2017, 11:02 PM
#52
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Lol, I thought he was talking about something simple I never heard of regarding the 996 drivetrain. I'm not fabricating anything, haven't needed it, still dont.
Personally that's why i run NASA, not a bunch of fully chassy rebuilds and fabricated everything like time attack. Take your platform, add some suspension, power, aero and take out some weight and see where you stack up. That being said, the rules making leaves much to be desired. Used to be straight up weight to power ratio. Not straight up any more.
Personally that's why i run NASA, not a bunch of fully chassy rebuilds and fabricated everything like time attack. Take your platform, add some suspension, power, aero and take out some weight and see where you stack up. That being said, the rules making leaves much to be desired. Used to be straight up weight to power ratio. Not straight up any more.
12-16-2017, 12:37 AM
#53
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12-16-2017, 02:37 PM
#55
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I do maybe one event a year now with NASA and run GTSU- rules as a consequence are for others.
Even the flags (on occasion).
But I feel for you guys with the constant rules tinkering (not to mention low track time, crowded paddock, crazy early allhands meetings etc.)
Even the flags (on occasion).
But I feel for you guys with the constant rules tinkering (not to mention low track time, crowded paddock, crazy early allhands meetings etc.)
12-16-2017, 02:55 PM
#56
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I do maybe one event a year now with NASA and run GTSU- rules as a consequence are for others.
Even the flags (on occasion).
But I feel for you guys with the constant rules tinkering (not to mention low track time, crowded paddock, crazy early allhands meetings etc.)
Even the flags (on occasion).
But I feel for you guys with the constant rules tinkering (not to mention low track time, crowded paddock, crazy early allhands meetings etc.)
The easy way to do this would be having a range of weights vs HP/weight ratio. ..........PLus, gear ratio closeness............then, there is no question about performance classing nor a chance of complaints!
so, what about the displacement rule change! ????? no one thinks its unfair to the bigger displacement engine cars, that dont have much power, to HAVE to run in GTS5? what does it matter? in fact, generally, the big engine chassis are heavier , and have many more challenges in the handling dept.
12-16-2017, 04:10 PM
#57
Did that rear engine penalty catch you Dez? I thought it kicked in at a certain weight to penalize factory cups like less then 2800 lbs or something. We had a shop here running a R8 LMS straight out of PWC in ST1 
Its never fair haha It still shows on our track records, I've ran at the pace of most of them or really close they are all going to fall this season
Its never fair haha It still shows on our track records, I've ran at the pace of most of them or really close they are all going to fall this season
12-16-2017, 04:41 PM
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Did that rear engine penalty catch you Dez? I thought it kicked in at a certain weight to penalize factory cups like less then 2800 lbs or something. We had a shop here running a R8 LMS straight out of PWC in ST1 Its never fair haha It still shows on our track records, I've ran at the pace of most of them or really close they are all going to fall this season
Its never fair haha It still shows on our track records, I've ran at the pace of most of them or really close they are all going to fall this seasonKibort, the official name of it was a rear engine modification and yes it was real. Declared as advantageous to all other drivetrain layouts. But it surely wasn't based on vw beetles. As far as fairness for Displacement, maybe they are trying to keep Porsches out of ST and LS motors out of GTS? Can't make a justification for it. But that goes for several of the rules.
12-18-2017, 01:40 PM
#60
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It was for all 911's until i posted it here and we pitched a fit, they then modified it to cars weighing less than 2900 lbs. It was still ridiculous no matter how much the car weighed. The reasoning for it was even worse, one car in 2011 won a qualifying race at nationals, not even the championship race. JR Gordon to be exact. And that set thr precident. Cups have a no production car penalty, I don't think they had to take the 911 penalty too.
Kibort, the official name of it was a rear engine modification and yes it was real. Declared as advantageous to all other drivetrain layouts. But it surely wasn't based on vw beetles. As far as fairness for Displacement, maybe they are trying to keep Porsches out of ST and LS motors out of GTS? Can't make a justification for it. But that goes for several of the rules.
Kibort, the official name of it was a rear engine modification and yes it was real. Declared as advantageous to all other drivetrain layouts. But it surely wasn't based on vw beetles. As far as fairness for Displacement, maybe they are trying to keep Porsches out of ST and LS motors out of GTS? Can't make a justification for it. But that goes for several of the rules.
so i understand the porsches and ST (supertouring) where there are a lot of vets and others with big HP/weight. the ligther smaller cars have an advantage , we saw this in speedworld challenge when the cups first started to show up. so a little penatly for the lighter cars was something many agree with. however, just the opposite is true for the GTS4-5 group, where a big displacement gets penalized to only run in GTS5, with no regards for the limited HP, AND , it weighs more too generally? Thats BS too.
